Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.
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  1. #1
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Corporal
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    Talking Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    Here we go! We knew it would happen sooner or later. In spite of HR-218, some off duty, out of state police officers have been arrested and charged with carrying concealed weapons in Sturgis, S.D., after being involved in a shooting.

    The original felony charges were dismissed because of self-defense and lots of witnesses, but the prosecutors apparently felt they had to charge something so, disregarding HR-218, they charged two federal and two non-federal officers with carrying concealed weapons.

    Read the full story: http://www.policelink.com/news/52744...8-to-be-tested

    Here's an interesting excerpt from the story:

    "Smith told The Times that he may have been targeted by the Hells Angels because he testified in a high-profile federal racketeering and murder trial in Seattle last year that sent several former and current members of the gang to prison."

    The possibilty of such incidents was one of the principal justifications for passage of HR-218.

    This case is worth watching.

    :?

  2. #2
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    Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    Very interesting indeed Carl. Thanks for posting it. I will be one that will follow this story til it's conclusion. I own property out of the state of Florida which requires me to drive through and stop in several states along the way while getting to my vacation home. I always have a firearm on me along the way as well in the state of my vacation home. I find it very interesting that 2 of the off duty officers involved are Feds. Sort of reminds me of the saying, "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

  3. #3
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Corporal
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    Talking Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    Several decades ago, before I joined the Secret Service, the City of New York arrested some Secret Service Agents for carrying concealed firearms in NYC.

    The Supreme Court ruled that Secret Service Agents could carry concealed firearms anywhere in the world that was under the jurisdiction of the United States of America. It would seem to me that the same applies to all federal law enforcement officers; not even needing the added protection of HR-218.

    All of the officers will probably beat all of the charges, but this just demonstrates what I have said all along that in the mean time the local prosecutors can certainly lock you up, cost you legal fees, and generally make your life miserable for a while.... Which is why concealed carry should be just that - concealed, and very discreet.

    Then, when and if you need it - you have it. :wink:

  4. #4
    Guest

    Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    SORRY TO BRING THIS UP BUT...


    PART OF THE LAW READS:

    `(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

    `(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property;

    YOU CAN CARRY/TAKE IT TO ANY STATE, BUT YOU CAN NOT BRING IT IN TO EVERY PLACE YOU GO.

  5. #5
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Corporal
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    Unhappy Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    Excellent point.

    However, there is nothing in the news story to indicate that the establishment had posted a "no firearms" prohibition.

    There is nothing in the story to indicate that the officers were "under the influence" of alcohol or drugs.

    Absent these circumstances, no state law prohibiting carrying firearms in establishments serving alcohol applies. As the preamble of HR-218 says, "Nothwithstanding any state law to the contrary..."

    And, the federal agents (U.S. Customs) did not need to rely on HR-218. What was the justification for arresting them?

    :?:

  6. #6
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    Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    My understanding is that they were carrying their firearms inside an establishment that serves alcohol, and that they were consuming alcohol while armed. If this is true, that may account for the charge.

  7. #7
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Corporal
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    Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Britcop
    My understanding is that they were carrying their firearms inside an establishment that serves alcohol, and that they were consuming alcohol while armed. If this is true, that may account for the charge.
    The provisions of HR-218 do not prohibit carrying a firearm inside an establishment that serves alcohol and furthermore negates any state law (or political subdivision thereof) to the contrary. Nor is it negated by the mere consumption of alcohol. The prohibition is for being "under the influence" of alcohol; just as you can drive a car while drinking alcohol as long as you are not "under the influence" of it.

    Quote:

    `Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

    `(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

    `(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

    `(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

    `(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

    (c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

    `(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

    `(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

    `(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

    `(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

    `(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

    `(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

    The provision for "qualified retirees" is the same, except there is a more detailed accounting of what is required for a retiree to be "qualified."

  8. #8
    Guest

    Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    Hr218 was already tested in New York City. A Pennsylvania Constable was in New York to serve and arrest warrant. While sitting in his vehicle he was arrested by NYPD for carring a firearm. New York Superior Court (acity court) ruled the constable was covered under HR218 and the charges were dropped.

  9. #9
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Corporal
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    Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest
    Hr218 was already tested in New York City. A Pennsylvania Constable was in New York to serve and arrest warrant. While sitting in his vehicle he was arrested by NYPD for carring a firearm. New York Superior Court (acity court) ruled the constable was covered under HR218 and the charges were dropped.

    That only sets a precedent at the lowest level; a city. There could be tests in other cities, counties and at the state level. Also, the case could have been appealed to the State Appeals and Supreme Court, and ultimately to the federal District Appeals and U.S. Supreme Court, if the prosecutors wished.

    And, even then we are only talking about NYC. Arrests could be, and probably will be, made in other jurisdictions in other states simply to continue to challenge the law.

    Imagine what the 11th Federal Appeals District Court (encompassing California, et.al.) might rule in a test case. :shock:

    Prudence continues to be the watch word.

  10. #10
    Guest

    Re: Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

    It's all about to change anyway, when Obama gets elected. I guarantee you that he will take away the rights of LEO's, both active and retired, and not allow then to carry guns out of state. if you don't believe me than just wait.......it's coming :shock:

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