The Problem with any Admin at ABT
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  1. #1
    Guest

    The Problem with any Admin at ABT

    This is not a knock any one administration here at ABT.

    Take a look at everyone at the top at ABT including some Captains. (except Roberts)

    Now pull up the website of any major police department.

    Compare the backgrounds of the two. The glaring difference is that the admin at police departments have worked their way on up from the rank and file. As chief or sherrif you may be able to bring in your number 2 but don't think you will bring in new guys off the street to fill all the top slots. That's the real problem here. We are a very specialized law enforcement agency and every two years we get new people running the ship with very little senior leadership in place.

    For those of us that have worked other places can you even imagine the uproar if the chief appointed a new employee as sgt or even detective without them doing time on the road. It just doesn't happen.

    That process ensures that the guys on the road may have a chance of getting off. If the specialty units were always filled by friends from other agencies a lot of the road patrol would go elsewhere and I think that is why we have a %25 yearly turnover rate.

    When you look at our job, no one should be leaving. People should be staying until they retire. On the face of it this is so much better than humping calls on the road. It's the internal irritants that causes people to leave. Don't say it's the money because we all knew the pay sucked when we started. People say it's the money because they realize the meager pay is not worth the agravation.

  2. #2
    Guest

    !

    Quote Originally Posted by ??
    This is not a knock any one administration here at ABT.

    Take a look at everyone at the top at ABT including some Captains. (except Roberts)

    Now pull up the website of any major police department.

    Compare the backgrounds of the two. The glaring difference is that the admin at police departments have worked their way on up from the rank and file. As chief or sherrif you may be able to bring in your number 2 but don't think you will bring in new guys off the street to fill all the top slots. That's the real problem here. We are a very specialized law enforcement agency and every two years we get new people running the ship with very little senior leadership in place.

    For those of us that have worked other places can you even imagine the uproar if the chief appointed a new employee as sgt or even detective without them doing time on the road. It just doesn't happen.

    That process ensures that the guys on the road may have a chance of getting off. If the specialty units were always filled by friends from other agencies a lot of the road patrol would go elsewhere and I think that is why we have a %25 yearly turnover rate.

    When you look at our job, no one should be leaving. People should be staying until they retire. On the face of it this is so much better than humping calls on the road. It's the internal irritants that causes people to leave. Don't say it's the money because we all knew the pay sucked when we started. People say it's the money because they realize the meager pay is not worth the agravation.
    I differ with you...appointments does happen everywhere. The sheriff replaces people regardless of rank even if you look at them wrong, especially when they first arrive with NO EXPERIENCE and just a POPULAR vote. Been there, done that and got axed for it! So I must differ your opinion. Also what ABT does more than anything is GRIPE and the other duties we do is boderlining on and off of police work...its more or less regulation. So save us the PO PO philosophy it does not work with those of us who really know what we do and I think everyone who is employed with us deserves a faif shake and a little support! Jealously is a difficult thing to admit to!

  3. #3
    Guest
    I have to agree with the first posting, you can not keep filling all the top positions with people that have no ABT experiance. I know most the agents want to do police work except for the slug nuts that want to be inspectors. But reality is we were all excieted when the DS came to all our offices and said we are going to get back into police work, investigations, the root problem of the licensed premises. That didn't last long, because the new director, as I hear it hasn't changed from when she was an agent. She want the priorty to be minors, minors, and more minors. She is obviously not concerned with enforcing the law but only with the administrative process. It is so evident during her meeting in Gainsville when she was talking about task forces, she said and I quote, If one of our agents get shot in a grow house, what do I say to the industry." Give me a break, that just shows you the mentality. First why are we telling the industry anything involving criminal investigations, in cases someone forgot that is a misdemeanor in the state of florida. Also, what does she mean tell the industry, what about saying the cops a hero, or what do I tell his/her family. So for all you Law Enforcement enthusists get ready to work your minors, and conduct your cases as long as it doesn't inpact the industry. Now if you want to do some real Police Work, join your local PD, or Sheriffs office, make a case on a licensed premises and call ABT for assistance. Sorry I call it like I see it.

  4. #4
    Guest
    If you and the DS and others want to work as policemen there are hundreds of agencies that need you. I belive the director's message is clear, we are alcoholic beverages and tobacco and that is the only task force we need to be on! Dont get me wrong..we can assist others and do joint investigations however our primary is alcoholic beverages and tobacco. PS Alachua County and Gainesville PD are hiring!

  5. #5
    Guest
    I have to disagree with the two previous posters.

    Even at the SO they may replace your assignment but I have never seen a captain or major let go when the new sheriff comes to town. They may get moved around but never fired. Also I have never heard of a sheriff apointing friends to Captain level positions.

    Next, who thinks an ABT agents time is better spent arresting an underage drinker rather than being on a task force? Especially where an ABT's agent experience can be useful in tracking money from a convenience store with terrorist ties. I didn't know we were limited to two sections of the statute book.

    That makes no sense. Would you dare think that way 7 years ago. How quickly we forget.

  6. #6
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ??
    I have to disagree with the two previous posters.

    Even at the SO they may replace your assignment but I have never seen a captain or major let go when the new sheriff comes to town. They may get moved around but never fired. Also I have never heard of a sheriff apointing friends to Captain level positions.

    Next, who thinks an ABT agents time is better spent arresting an underage drinker rather than being on a task force? Especially where an ABT's agent experience can be useful in tracking money from a convenience store with terrorist ties. I didn't know we were limited to two sections of the statute book.

    That makes no sense. Would you dare think that way 7 years ago. How quickly we forget.
    You are misguided must be a new one from a sheriffs office. A small sheriffs office at that cause people at all levels are replaced by "friends" its life and does not matter as long as they meet the qualifications for the job. Read statute..read the reason this Division was created and what they should be doing..by law...which was revised in 2006...you will find the answer at last. Now. if you dont want to do the job then go to the other agencies task with the duties you are referring to!

  7. #7
    Guest
    I don't know about appt. friends and stuff but your new Director is right you are a regulatory agency with restricted law enforcement powers. Minors, you better work minors and other beverage related misds., along with admin. cases. There already is other law enforcement agency's to work all kinds of criminal work. Your's and the divisions only chance to exist as you are is to work minors and beverage laws, with assistance to other agency's as asked. You are here only because politicains and the industry want you, if you don't believe it you are very foolish. The best thing for someone to say about ABT is WHO?????? Keep them guessing for your survival.

  8. #8
    Guest
    This issue should really be discussed (at length) at every basic beverage class and every in service class. I will take a few minutes (before stopping by Lowes) to explain it to you now.

    The Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco is a regulatory agency with law enforcement authority. This law enforcement authority is granted to allow employees of the Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco the means necessary to enforce the statutes know collectively as "beverage law." If you are still confused, take a look at your "beverage law" book. Gear your enforcement efforts toward the statutes enumerated within that book. If you want to do something else, please move on.

  9. #9
    Guest
    Other law enforcement to work the "fringe" ABT activity. Who are you kidding.

    Most LE agencies are 911 driven. They don't care about ties to terrorism, people supplying alcohol to kids if it doesn't happen in front of them, fake id's (they don't even know it's a felony), and other assorted ABT work that you say is not part of our mission.

    Guess what folks it's the 21st century and our world has changed. It's not 1950 anymore and we aren't looking for gin mills. The most important thing any LE can focuss on is domestic terrorism within their purview. There were terrorists living in Hollywood. There are currently terrorist supporters all over South Florida with ABT issued licenses. Don't you think it's a bit more important that the store clerk is sending money overseas for these purposes as opposed to him selling to an underage kid. After 9/11 (the terrorist attacks since so many of you seemed to have forgotten) changed the way we live. Every department needs to look at what they can do within their jurisdiction to fight domestic terrorists. Don't rely upon the CIA or FBI to protect your own back yard. That's our job as local/state police.

    We can still do both. There are two guys in SF assigned to JTTF. I think the rest of us can handle working minors while these two fight domestic terrorists.

    I guess many of you are too young or too old to remember 9/11. I'm right in the middle and I remember. You all don't know how close we have come to further attacks. Lucky for me you guys are doing minor work while they supply the funds to fight another 9/11.

    Keep up the vital ABT job. Keep those blinders on. "Keep up your numbers" even though we are doing away with KPI's.

    If anyone wants to read the real ABT Administrative Manual read "Animal Farm".

  10. #10
    Guest
    I am curious. Do you think FWC, FHP, DOT, SFM, AG LAW are concerned about assigning investigators full-time to task forces? There may be a couple, but it really isn't something that concerns them. How much money has FDLE given ABT to fund positions on the DTTF's? What federal money pours in to fund our participation in JTTF's? Best I can figure - none. People much smarter than you and I have figured that you don't need an ABT LEI II in order to investigate links to terrorism and licensees of DBPR. You don't need ABT to follow the money back to some third world crap hole.
    You do need ABT to make an admin case though. Put down your copy of Terrorism Today and get to work.

    KPI's aren't going away either.

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