Taking the PBA Seriously

If the PBA wants me to take them seriously, here are two things that they MUST do:

1. Provide a PBA representative for every IA interview conducted with a PBA member if the member wants a representative present. The representative must be ARTICULATE and WELL TRAINED in the skills needed to assure that the rights of the member not be violated by the IA investigator.

This person needs to be more that a sit and listen kind of person. He must be aggressive in protecting the member.

If the member has, in fact, committed a serious violation then the representative is not obligated to defend the indefensible, but should work towards getting the best deal for the member in terms of mitigating the punishment.

2. Provide a PBA person who is an EXPERT in all phases of WORKERS' COMPENSATION issues and the associated matter of DISABILITY RETIREMENT, as well as the FAMILY and MEDICAL LEAVE ACT and the AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT. Have that person available to any member who is injured in the line of duty for constant consultation as the member progresses toward Maximum Medical Improvement and the possible settlement of financial issues related to that status.

The person must have proper training and understanding of the complexities of the above mentioned issues AND should monitor paperwork provided to the member by the agency, the doctors and any other party involved.

When the PBA takes these two steps, THEN I will begin to consider them a valuable entity to the rank and file deputy. So long as the only thing they are doing is negotiating pay issues (and possibly working conditions) I will consider them less than adequate.

If the PBA won't do this it might be time to find some other representation by another group.

:!:

No responses?

Agree?

Disagree?

Don't care?

Think it doesn't affect you?

If you spend a career in law enforcement you can be sure you will at some point be involved in an IA case, a Workers' Comp claim or Retirement. It DOES affect you!

:!:

Well,how many i.a. investigations have you sat in on,how many pba meetings have you attended,have you read the police bill of rights and know what the pba reps and private attorneys actually can do in these situations,have you actually spoke to any representive of the pba to voice your concerns , as I notice you signed on anonymously.Its easy to hide and be the judge,if you have any questions why not ask someone that can give you a straight answer instead of this board which doent answer back.

Fair questions, even if overly defensive of the PBA.

The answer is that the only IA investigations I've actually "sat in" on were the ones where I was being interviewed - as a witness, not a target.

However, in prior years I had worked with several detectives who went on to become IA detectives and I often lunched with them during their IA years. We didn't discuss specific cases, but I gained a lot of insight regarding their approach to the investigations. They were NOT out to hang the deputies when they investigated the complaints.

In addition, Yes, I've had conversations with Chuck Haber, who does sit in as a PBA representative at IA interviews. He had to resign from the Reserve I program in order to continue in this role.

Of course I'm familiar with the officer's rights during an IA investigation. That wasn't the issue. The issue had to do with the PBA providing a representative to attend the IA interview who was WELL TRAINED, ARTICULATE and AGGRESSIVE in expressing these rights. Many officers are not fully aware of their rights and are slow to assert these rights when they are the subjects of an investigation.

NOW - Note that the IA representation issue was only one of the elements of my post.

YOU ANSWER ONE FOR ME: Who is the PBA representative who is an EXPERT and who can help injured deputies with matters of Workers' Compensation, Family and Medical Leave Act, Americans with Disabilities Act and Disability Retirement?

Who?

You don't know?

I didn't think so.

:roll:

I did use a "rep" and a Lawyer from the P.B.A. I was refused the right to go to my own disciplinary hearing,refused the right to resign,refused the right to appeal the findings of the hearing,and finnally refused the right to even speak to the "Sheriff".

I guess my case was a "special" case. I did not rape,take drugs,get caught on tape, beat a citizen, or inmate. I looked at "David" and did not admitt to posting on this site.

Oh I forgot, 6 years no write ups, 6 Year Army vet. 2 years college, dual certified, ahhh not connected..... maybe thats what got me? :cry:

I did use a "rep" and a Lawyer from the P.B.A. I was refused the right to go to my own disciplinary hearing,refused the right to resign,refused the right to appeal the findings of the hearing,and finnally refused the right to even speak to the "Sheriff".

I guess my case was a "special" case. I did not rape,take drugs,get caught on tape, beat a citizen, or inmate. I looked at "David" and did not admitt to posting on this site.

Oh I forgot, 6 years no write ups, 6 Year Army vet. 2 years college, dual certified, ahhh not connected..... maybe thats what got me? :cry:

It is hard to credit an allegation that a person was not permitted to attend his disciplinary hearing.

Are you saying there was an IA investigation and charges against you were sustained and you were not permitted to sit in while the staff determined your punishment? I don't consider that the same as a "disciplinary hearing." I don't know that you should be entitled to listen in as the staff discusses the pros and cons of different levels of punishment in order to determine what is appropriate.

Now, if you are saying you were not permitted to present evidence during a procedure where your guilt or innocence was being determined, that is different. I doubt that is what you are saying.

Never having been disciplined, I don't know the answer to this so I will ask you: Is there a provision in the SOP for appealing your punishment? If so, I find it hard to credit the claim that you weren't permitted to follow the SOP. Details would be interesting.

Do you mean that you weren't permitted to resign in order to end the IA investigation? No one can be prevented from simply resigning. You must have been looking for some benefit in return for resigning. Details?

I don't understand the term "looked at David." Do you mean that you looked the Sheriff in the face and denied making a post on this site? Please explain.

It sounds like you were being investigated by IA for making anonymous postings on this site that violated SOPs regarding disrespect for superiors and although you denied making them the allegations were sustained. Is that right?

If so, I would be interested in their evidence against you. Did they have your IP address? Had you bragged to others about your posts, and did some of these others testify that you had made statements that you had made the postings. I have always said that bragging about having made abusive postings was the most likely way for someone to get caught.

Did you want to speak to the Sheriff to deny the offense after it had gone through the investigative and punishment process? If so, I can understand why he saw no purpose in seeing you. Or did you want to ask for mitigation of the punishment. Again, I can see why he wouldn't want to overrule his staff.

Finally, if I were the victim that you purport to be in your original post, I would have a nice sit down with Daniel Ruth and expose the corrupt practices used against me.

Ruth was quick to defend the Detention Deputy who unquestionably violated both the SOP and the law in falsely executing FMLA paperwork for leave that he was not entitled to, so it is reasonable to believe that Ruth would jump on this case which has a lot more merit to it if the facts are as you state.

You have described your case and your background to the extent that a staff member reading your post could identify you, so fear of being identified should not hinder going to Ruth.

If I were disciplined for posting on this website I would put myself in debt up to my ears in order to hire Luke Lirot (renowned 1st amendment attorney) and bend myself into a pretzel in order to make the loudest national media ruckus I could. IF I had a list of "dirt" then it would be spread nationally as well. Try the ACLU?

If I were disciplined for posting on this website I would put myself in debt up to my ears in order to hire Luke Lirot (renowned 1st amendment attorney) and bend myself into a pretzel in order to make the loudest national media ruckus I could. IF I had a list of "dirt" then it would be spread nationally as well. Try the ACLU?

I think the key word there is IF.

I don't think Not a good ole boy has been entirely forthcoming in his claim.

There's more to the story.

:wink: