WHAT THE ...........

Excerpt from todays Times:

The city has hired 32 more Police Department employees since 2000. And more than 90 percent of the extra $29-million the department will spend in 2007 vs. 2000 is going to salaries, pensions and health care plans. That includes increased pension contributions for police officers because of lean stock market years, said Gary Cornwell, the city’s human resources director.


During the same period, the average salaries and benefits for a Police Department employee jumped from $60,316 to $92,054 this year.

32 more police employees???? Who were they??? The police department hasn't added sworn positions since the 18 officers in the early 90s from the grant. Its a miracle we're able to keep up. Let's look at last night: Two officicers from D3 assigned to the golf course (those darn kids stealing candy have upset the chief). Officers from D1 and D2 pulled to D3 to cover calls. calls holding all night and evening officers held over because mids was so short. During this there were a steadey stream of incoming calls for service...many of which were held for long periods of time.

As for the average pay....WHAAAATTTTTT????? Entry pay is less than $40,000 and the average officer makes $60,316. Is that before or after the 7% is taken from my pay for my pension. And does that include the monthly bonuses that the Majors receive for their good work??


That just might explain the highest turnover rate in the state for the sixth straight year......

when you say "highest turnover rate" do you mean amoung leo agencies or government sector employees? do you have any information that supports your claim. i am very interested.

Finally someone asks a good question. I have all the respect in the world for firefighters but their benefit package is outrageous. Have you all ever wondered why we still allow then to change shifts after 24 hours? That started in the days of volunteer fire departments. I think if cops can change shifts, so can firefighters. What's the deal with Kelly Days every month? A monthly paid day off when police officers are getting mandatory overtime? Workout rooms? I believe their benefit rate approaches 80% so for every dollar they make we taxpayers spent .80 on benefits. And the old thing about them not being able to support themselves on their salary so they all have second jobs. Maybe their work schedule encourages second jobs.

Yes, they do have info to support that claim. The FDLE publishes an annual report that rates and categorizes municipal and county law enforcement agencies in several categories.

One of the focused upon categories is certified officer attrition, St. Pete PD has consistently led the state for the past few years, and we are well on pace for this year.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/cjst/CJA...xcjap2005.html


Part of Attrition: (from a table..numbers are 2005/2005/2003)

Pinellas Largo Police Department 12 14 18
Pinellas Pinellas Park Police Department 11 10 10
Pinellas St. Pete Beach Police Department 3 4 7
Pinellas St. Petersburg Police Department 57 81 60
Pinellas Tarpon Springs Police Department 8 3 4
Pinellas Treasure Island Police Department 4 3 2
Polk Auburndale Police Department 6 4 2

Officer Hires 2005:

Pinellas St. Petersburg Police Department 51


Officer ratio: (# of officers/population/ratio)

Hillsborough Tampa Police Department 984/325,775/3.02
Hillsborough Temple Terrace Police Department 49/22,020/2.23
Pinellas Seminole Police Department 116/17,944/6.46
Pinellas St. Pete Beach Police Department 29/10,032/2.89
Pinellas St. Petersburg Police Department 552/253,548/2.18
Miami Dade Miami Beach Police Department 376/93,535/4.02
Miami Dade Miami Police Department 1013/384,332/2.64
Miami Dade Miami Shores Police Department 32/10,486/3.05
Orange Orlando Police Department 696/217,327/3.20



Even some altered stats: number of officers (2005/2004/2003):

Pinellas St. Petersburg Police Department 552 547 508

Oddly enough our numbers include Cadets and Pending Hires (see the monthly report)....Asst Chief Gordon's response at the retreat: "We have to count them somewhere"


Go see for yourself....

[FD Bro']

Finally someone asks a good question. I have all the respect in the world for firefighters but their benefit package is outrageous. Have you all ever wondered why we still allow then to change shifts after 24 hours? That started in the days of volunteer fire departments. I think if cops can change shifts, so can firefighters. What's the deal with Kelly Days every month? A monthly paid day off when police officers are getting mandatory overtime? Workout rooms? I believe their benefit rate approaches 80% so for every dollar they make we taxpayers spent .80 on benefits. And the old thing about them not being able to support themselves on their salary so they all have second jobs. Maybe their work schedule encourages second jobs.

I'm trying to figure your angle, here. Are these questions/statements in deference to the PD's pay, workweek and pension plan?

You can place every cop in the city on a 24 hour shift and at the end of the week; they will have worked 56 hours. Of those 56 hours you're going to pay them overtime at “time and a half rate per hour” for the additional 16 hours worked. The only reason why the City of St. Petersburg agreed to a Kelly Day for Fire Fighters every six weeks was to reduce the 'average' work week that your Fire Fighters work, down from 56 hours to 52.

If you're a CPA, then you might be familiar with the Fair Labor Standards Act. What you may not be aware of is the fact that Fire Fighters aren't capable of earning FLSA overtime until they work in excess of 53 hours a week! I'm not sure how my Brothers and Sisters on the PD side of the street would react to that, but that's the government's take on overtime for me and mine.

Would you be wounded to find that there are Fire Fighters working 48 hour workweeks, right here in the Tampa Bay area? Hillsborough County Fire Fighters average 48 hours by taking a Kelly day off every ‘three’ weeks. They too, work 24 on and 48 off. From your post, I believe you may be in favor of Fire Fighters working fewer hours. Me too! There are many departments working 42 hour weeks on the east coast of Florida and in the northeastern U.S., there are many that work 40 hour weeks. It’s less about the structure of the workweek and more about the number of hours worked.

You say, “I have all the respect in the world for firefighters but their benefit package is outrageous.” As compared to what? If you’re frequent visitor to this site, you’ve no doubt seen some of the comparisons. I work for the 4th largest city in the state of Florida, but if you look at the comparables; my pay, workweek and pension package isn’t even near the top of the comparables page. In fact we are very close to the bottom of every comparison page. Those are the facts that you don’t see the city promoting because it doesn’t further their cause.

You further continued with, “A monthly paid day off when police officers are getting mandatory overtime?” I wonder… did you happen to catch our contract impasse hearing on the city’s TV channel last month? The question of ‘time off’ or more importantly the ‘lack of time off’ came up then. We keep St. Petersburg Fire & Rescue afloat with the overtime that your Fire Fighters and Fire Fighter/Paramedics work. During the impasse hearing the question was asked of the Mayor’s office by one of the council members, “just how many hours a week are the dept. employees being made to work overtime on a mandatory basis?” Supposedly, no one knew because it’s a huge embarrassment and the city had no pay code to track it. BUT THEY DO NOW! They started tracking forced overtime right after the Grand Prix! What a shock! They missed 'those' huge totals!

Fire Fighters who work for the city of St. Petersburg don’t base any of their pension on overtime hours worked. Our pension is based on ‘base salary’ alone. Why would the city allow the fire dept. to continue to generate so many hours of overtime? Because it’s cheaper to work Fire Fighters on their days off, than it is to hire additional Fire Fighters and pay for their benefits package! It’s like getting a Fire Fighter and a half for the price of a single Fire Fighter! It’s not just about overtime, it’s about a term that the city claims doesn’t exist and that’s “mandatory overtime.” When you speak of all the time off that Fire Fighters enjoy, vs. the PD, let’s subtract from those hours-off the overtime hours that I don’t want to work but am ‘forced’ to work. Here’s a shocker… besides all those hours that I’m forced to work over - they aren’t necessarily at ‘time and a half’ rate! Here’s the classic St. Petersburg Fire & Rescue quagmire… you’ve just enjoyed a Kelly day (remember... we work a 52 hour week) and it’s your first 24 hr. shift back. You’re told in the morning after working your 24 hour shift that you’ve just been “manditoried!” Because you’ve been off for a 24 hour Kelly day, you’re now being forced to work an additional 12 hour half shift on top of the 24 that you’ve just worked – and it’s all at straight time! Man-oh-man… are the Fire Fighters of St. Petersburg Fire & Rescue putting one over on the city! Yeah, right!

The erudite individual that you are, opines further, “I believe their benefit rate approaches 80% so for every dollar they make we taxpayers spent .80 on benefits.”

Figures are a wonderful thing. I’m sure you’ve heard the saying, “liars figure and figures lie!” We heard the very same things during the impasse hearing. We are now quite sure – judging from the reaction of some council members, (jaws dropping) that numbers like these slipped out of the Mayor's hands and weren't supposed to. The question was asked by council, “Why does it cost so much more to hire a Fire Fighter in the city of St. Petersburg than it does in Hillsborough County or in Tampa?” Well, I’ll tell you why. It’s because the city has saddled old pension woes to ‘my’ pension. Pension money that was supposed to go to the prior plan (1970) retiree’s pension plan (but didn't), is now being shown on the books as being a liability to 'my' pension plan! It costs more to hire a Fire Fighter in this city, not because we’re getting so much more, but because the city of St. Petersburg mismanaged the money to the tune of more than $70,000,000 (current unfunded liability). It’s not in my pay check or pension – I can tell you that!

And finally, you popped out the words, “Workout rooms?”

While there ‘is’ some science involved in fire science; it’s not all higher thinking. A little bit of manual labor is involved. I have to wear heavy Nomex bunker gear that doesn’t breathe well. I literally take years off of my life by steaming myself from the core, out. I slog around in rubber boots and climb ladders with said same. When I’m not walking upright, I’m crawling in the dark on my belly, dragging a charged hoseline in my hands. I wear an airpack loaded with 4500 psi. of breathing air that’s hooked to a mask that is often fogged up by my own breath, making it that much harder to mitigate damage to your property, let alone effect a rescue. When fire rolls over my head, I dare not stand and run or I’ll suffer the consequences of cowardice at 1500 degrees. All the while, a Rapid Entry Team stays outside in the shade, listening to the radio for a Mayday call. Their sole job is to take care of me and my crew. If any one of us should get lost or trapped, a Rapid Entry Team is deployed to start the blitz. Time is of the essence because there’s only so much breathing air for a Fire Fighter who’s in ‘relatively’ good condition. In larger structure fires this is a grave turning point in fire operations because you have now committed one Rapid Entry Team & their specialized tools and equipment. History tells us that if that one Rapid Entry Team gets lost or trapped while looking for me, it will now take three additional Rapid Entry Teams to rescue both the crew members that were initially trapped as well as the lost or trapped initial Rapid Entry Team.
And we haven’t even touched on working a heart attack victim, a high speed auto crash or the odd tanker fire.

Lastly you add, “And the old thing about them not being able to support themselves on their salary so they all have second jobs. Maybe their work schedule encourages second jobs.”

52 hours worked is 52 hours worked…


Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

FD Bro'

No... Thank You for asking a good question.

Hey where'd you go, CPA? Better be glad you're not an attorney. Looks like you asked some questions that you didn't really know the answer to! FD Bro' stopped you and your little misinformation campaign - dead in your tracks.

We're starting negotiations again and I want to know if you're going to be popping your head back in here under another pseudonym, asking the same questions of us?

You either know just enough information to mis-inform the public or you're one of the mayor's administration butt buddies, spreading bad info.

[Picasso]

Gary Cornwell also said:

"That includes increased pension contributions for police officers because of lean stock market years,..."

WTF ! .. What does the stock market have to do with financing the City's share of Pension funds? I put my share into my pension fund every pay check. Is Mr Cornhole saying that the City isn't funding the pension as the Feds told them to do years ago ?!

[FD Bro']

"That includes increased pension contributions for police officers because of lean stock market years,..."

Hi Pic.

This is yet another example of a city that utilizes the "excuse of the day" program. If there's a pet project that brings 'them' notoriety, then it gets done and pronto -- no excuses necessary.

If they can fertilize it... make it happen.
If they can build it... make it happen.
If it stops the Uhuru from b!tching... make it happen.

If it's something that will aid in reversing the city's longstanding neglect of Police & Fire (it's always been a people-benefits thing, as you know)... find an excuse!

Sing it loud enough and long enough and they'll buy into the city's plight!

This is a wholly endemic problem that befalls few cities of this size in the state of Florida. It's brought about by a remarkable internal education campaign that the Human Relations office uses to 'enable' (brainwash) individual council members and department chiefs to remain just out of reach and unaccountable. Through a League of Cities indoc. campaign, we fall prey to council members who only know to eat the soylent green. They are told that HR will deal with us and keep us on a short leash for long periods of time through stall tactics while negotiating -- buffering council, all the while.

Council always says... "We feel your pain. When you get the opportunity to come to us (oh... let's say at impasse) we'll take care of you."

And what happens when we go to impasse? We meet up with the likes of insurance man Williams. He can't be bothered to read compelling evidence (as Councilman Williams) that's presented to him, and finds little time to talk about 'our' issues but plenty of time to talk about being the owner of an insurance company that's facing higher taxes as a commercial entity. WTF?

The message was clear. Hold the line and do it on the back's of your Fire Fighters and Police Officers. Send the Fire Fighters back to Karen Richardson and her boss, Gary Cornhole. After three years of constant negotiations with absolutely no movement on the part of the city, we think the best thing to do is to negotiate some more. We can't solve negotiations issues here!

Cowards!

If council is utilized as the ultimate arbiter of our problems after three years of "negotiations with a concrete wall," is this the best they've got? They stuck around till well after midnight to work out the details of a 32% pay raise for the mayor and over 40% for themselves, but can't work past 6 pm for those who do the heavy lifting?

http://sptimes.com/2005/12/17/Southpine ... ours.shtml

"The raises were prompted by an annual salary survey conducted by internal services director Mike Connors, who found local officials made much less than those in several other large Florida cities."

Not to be left out of these heroic actions...

"I think we should pay all elected officials an appropriate dollar amount based upon their responsibility," Williams said. "And it's a lot of responsibility."

It is said that "timing is everything." They just can't seem to find the time for you and I.

Say... have I shared with you all the story of one of our female Firefighter Paramedics who just quit working for St. Petersburg Fire & Rescue and is now driving the 90 miles to work for Orlando Fire Dept.? She lives in the city of St. Pete and drives past her former fire station on her way to a 48 hour workweek, better pay, better pension, a COLA and a supportive management environment!

This should be a wakeup call to all the citizens in this town. Medics are hard to come by and we're now bleeding them!


FD Bro'


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green