Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth is
It doesn't matter if 'Save Our Homes' doubled, tripled, quadrupled or not.
When an aspiring politician makes a claim that does not hold up under scrutiny, it does matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth is
The mere fact that the exemption 'increased at all' reduced available funds to government entities, like Delray Beach, that rely on property taxes to provide funding for services.
Ah, so at a time when property values were falling, the number of property owners was falling and the means of already overburdened taxpayers to continue to fund the ever-increasing size and price of local government was in decline, your solution was to what, raise taxes?
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Originally Posted by Truth is
Who cares what the amount is?
The already over-burdened taxpayers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth is
Add to the fiscal dilemma
What fiscal dilemma?
Please, take the publicly available financial data for Delray Beach and show me a "crisis".
Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements
When an aspiring politician makes a claim that does not hold up under scrutiny, it does matter.
This thread was about a former officer making statements. We now have submitted to this board that this is about a "former officer" who is an aspiring politician? Well Inquiring Mind, when has anything 'any' politician said, really mattered? Unless it promotes their agenda and regardless of their background, why do you think the comingling of facts with distortions designed to infer the truth is any different than any other politician, former cop or not? Truth is, I guess if you're an 'aspiring politician' you should be excellent at promoting 'the spin', huh? Better yet, as an aspiring politician you should know the facts, but lie instead. Maybe he/she is really being a better 'politician' than you think.
Ah, so at a time when property values were falling, the number of property owners was falling and the means of already overburdened taxpayers to continue to fund the ever-increasing size and price of local government was in decline, your solution was to what, raise taxes?
Ah...at no time did I ever say that 'raising taxes' was the solution. You sound like an aspiring politician, putting words in peoples mouth. In fact, I think the Former City Manager (DH) did a great job seeing to that...wouldn't you say? He kept a lid on costs. The 'ever-increasing size and price' of government is the cost of doing business and to provide quality services to it's citizens. Accepting the fiduciary responsibility of providing those 'quality services' while at the same time containing costs is a delicate yet very calculated balancing act. At some point in time...the citizens will pay for these 'calculations', either to support funding for quality services to return or, suffer from inferior services that will have obvious implications, but either way there will be consequences. Stakeholders will have to decide at what expense, to what extent and to what degree are the consequences acceptable. Multi-million dollar lawsuits from anything A-Z and under the sun hiring, training, retention, equipment failures, supervision...name it. What about the never ending labor disputes costing tax payers millions of dollars in an attorneys fees (yes, billable hours makes the right attorneys wealthy), poor response times, broken down and outdated equipment, lack of training and on-going education? Just peel back the onion and look underneath...Delray Beach is a mess, but not because of the hard working, loyal and dedicated employees.
Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements
Sorry to bust bubbles but there were a bunch of early retirement buyouts around that time. I though it was more like 15 city wide wit frozen positions through the recommendations made to Harden from a review board.
Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
When an aspiring politician makes a claim that does not hold up under scrutiny, it does matter.
This thread was about a former officer making statements. We now have submitted to this board that this is about a "former officer" who is an aspiring politician?
I hadn't intended to bring that up, but after he identified himself here it became relevant to the reason for my question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Well Inquiring Mind, when has anything 'any' politician said, really mattered?
That's rather cynical, isn't it? IMO, it's that mindset that causes so many bad politicians to get elected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Unless it promotes their agenda and regardless of their background, why do you think the comingling of facts with distortions designed to infer the truth is any different than any other politician, former cop or not?
In other circumstances it may not, but since the individual in question imagines himself to be a paragon of truthfulness and virtue, when in fact he's just a bloated blowhard..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Truth is, I guess if you're an 'aspiring politician' you should be excellent at promoting 'the spin', huh? Better yet, as an aspiring politician you should know the facts, but lie instead.
As I'm sure you're aware, politicians in the 21st Century don't appear to be big on actually reading legislation. If they were, they'd know little details like just how much a certain exemption they're blaming for alleged revenue deficiencies (even though it can be illustrated from the city's publicly available financial records that both funding for LE increased at this time, as did overall tax revenue). Such was my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Maybe he/she is really being a better 'politician' than you think.
Seeing as how he came in third, I doubt it.
Also, when you're running for office on a platform of little more than, "I'm not the other guy", you need to have some sort of novelty attached to your name, or you need to be a celebrity. Think Arnold Schwarzenegger, who really brought nothing to the table other than, "I'm not Gray Davis". The individual in question, recently described in the media as "lacking both depth and warmth", is neither novel nor is he a celebrity.
He's also not, IMO, especially likeable.
You remember Night Court? Dan Fielding ran for office and his campaign manager used some overly-expository language like "positive perceptibility" or something along those lines which he clearly doesn't understand. Asked to explain what he means, the CM switches to plain English and says, "People don't like you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Ah...at no time did I ever say that 'raising taxes' was the solution. You sound like an aspiring politician, putting words in peoples mouth.
I didn't say that you said it. I asked if you thought that was how this alleged revenue problem should have been solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
In fact, I think the Former City Manager (DH) did a great job seeing to that...wouldn't you say?
And bravo for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
He kept a lid on costs. The 'ever-increasing size and price' of government is the cost of doing business and to provide quality services to it's citizens.
Expense =/= quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Accepting the fiduciary responsibility of providing those 'quality services' while at the same time containing costs is a delicate yet very calculated balancing act.
No question about it. And, perhaps, cutting the size of the police force was the proper response. But was it the proper response a year or more before the legislation allegedly responsible for reducing revenues was even passed or its effects felt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
At some point in time...the citizens will pay for these 'calculations', either to support funding for quality services to return or, suffer from inferior services that will have obvious implications, but either way there will be consequences. Stakeholders will have to decide at what expense, to what extent and to what degree are the consequences acceptable. Multi-million dollar lawsuits from anything A-Z and under the sun hiring, training, retention, equipment failures, supervision...name it. What about the never ending labor disputes costing tax payers millions of dollars in an attorneys fees (yes, billable hours makes the right attorneys wealthy), poor response times, broken down and outdated equipment, lack of training and on-going education? Just peel back the onion and look underneath...
You make a lot of very good points and I agree with most of them, but I'm not sure they're relevant here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Delray Beach is a mess, but not because of the hard working, loyal and dedicated employees.
I don't agree that DB is a mess.
Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements
[quote=InquiringMind]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
When an aspiring politician makes a claim that does not hold up under scrutiny, it does matter.
This thread was about a former officer making statements. We now have submitted to this board that this is about a "former officer" who is an aspiring politician?
I hadn't intended to bring that up, but after he identified himself here it became relevant to the reason for my question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Stay on Topic":31kxvkns
Well Inquiring Mind, when has anything 'any' politician said, really mattered?
That's rather cynical, isn't it? IMO, it's that mindset that causes so many bad politicians to get elected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Unless it promotes their agenda and regardless of their background, why do you think the comingling of facts with distortions designed to infer the truth is any different than any other politician, former cop or not?
In other circumstances it may not, but since the individual in question imagines himself to be a paragon of truthfulness and virtue, when in fact he's just a bloated blowhard..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Truth is, I guess if you're an 'aspiring politician' you should be excellent at promoting 'the spin', huh? Better yet, as an aspiring politician you should know the facts, but lie instead.
As I'm sure you're aware, politicians in the 21st Century don't appear to be big on actually reading legislation. If they were, they'd know little details like just how much a certain exemption they're blaming for alleged revenue deficiencies (even though it can be illustrated from the city's publicly available financial records that both funding for LE increased at this time, as did overall tax revenue). Such was my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Maybe he/she is really being a better 'politician' than you think.
Seeing as how he came in third, I doubt it.
Also, when you're running for office on a platform of little more than, "I'm not the other guy", you need to have some sort of novelty attached to your name, or you need to be a celebrity. Think Arnold Schwarzenegger, who really brought nothing to the table other than, "I'm not Gray Davis". The individual in question, recently described in the media as "lacking both depth and warmth", is neither novel nor is he a celebrity.
He's also not, IMO, especially likeable.
You remember Night Court? Dan Fielding ran for office and his campaign manager used some overly-expository language like "positive perceptibility" or something along those lines which he clearly doesn't understand. Asked to explain what he means, the CM switches to plain English and says, "People don't like you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Ah...at no time did I ever say that 'raising taxes' was the solution. You sound like an aspiring politician, putting words in peoples mouth.
I didn't say that you said it. I asked if you thought that was how this alleged revenue problem should have been solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
In fact, I think the Former City Manager (DH) did a great job seeing to that...wouldn't you say?
And bravo for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
He kept a lid on costs. The 'ever-increasing size and price' of government is the cost of doing business and to provide quality services to it's citizens.
Expense =/= quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Accepting the fiduciary responsibility of providing those 'quality services' while at the same time containing costs is a delicate yet very calculated balancing act.
No question about it. And, perhaps, cutting the size of the police force was the proper response. But was it the proper response a year or more before the legislation allegedly responsible for reducing revenues was even passed or its effects felt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
At some point in time...the citizens will pay for these 'calculations', either to support funding for quality services to return or, suffer from inferior services that will have obvious implications, but either way there will be consequences. Stakeholders will have to decide at what expense, to what extent and to what degree are the consequences acceptable. Multi-million dollar lawsuits from anything A-Z and under the sun hiring, training, retention, equipment failures, supervision...name it. What about the never ending labor disputes costing tax payers millions of dollars in an attorneys fees (yes, billable hours makes the right attorneys wealthy), poor response times, broken down and outdated equipment, lack of training and on-going education? Just peel back the onion and look underneath...
You make a lot of very good points and I agree with most of them, but I'm not sure they're relevant here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
Delray Beach is a mess, but not because of the hard working, loyal and dedicated employees.
I don't agree that DB is a mess.[/quote:31kxvkns]
Inquiring Minds. You sound like a wind bag *****. Like I stated on a previous post that got deleted. You want Whatley, step up with a conduct number and I'll give you more 43 that your pen can handled. Set up a meet, and if you're serious, I will go on record all day long. I have several copy of filing packets that are just an appetizer that would send would send several of over past and present delray ***** police officers to jail. Including my very sergeant combo of swiggy and brady. Thats just the water to be served at dinner.
Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carver Estates
Inquiring Minds. You sound like a wind bag *****. Like I stated on a previous post that got deleted. You want Whatley, step up with a conduct number and I'll give you more 43 that your pen can handled. Set up a meet, and if you're serious, I will go on record all day long. I have several copy of filing packets that are just an appetizer that would send would send several of over past and present delray ***** police officers to jail. Including my very sergeant combo of swiggy and brady. Thats just the water to be served at dinner.
Got anything to say in response to the subject?