blue line

for those of you who dont believe in the blue line:

you never know when not cutting a fellow leo a break will come back to bite you. keep in mind, we are a very vocal bunch that like to tell stories to our other brothers in arms. especially when that story includes what we feel to be an injustice. sometimes, someone who knows a fellow brother that was shafted by another leo might be in a position to return the favor.

i will not go into detail, but i write this because i recently saw a very specific example of this. doing the right thing by your BROTHERS is generally not hard to do (especially for 316 violations) and is always appreciated. there are plenty of tickets to write that dont include people who have badges, or significant others thereof. i personally would never, and have never, write a fellow leo or family member. even one from an agency that shafted me.

on the other hand, shafting a fellow leo can also cause unnecessary animosity and even hatred for a particular agency. in some cases, as the one prompting me to write this, the lack of professional discretion or courtesy can have a direct impact on that particular leo thereby limiting career advancement or potential employment opportunities with other agencies.

it saddens me that fhp has such a horrible reputation among the majority of leo's in this area. i personally know that fhp has some good troopers (i've worked with a couple). however, it seems there are more that feel they are the police of the police. this type of attitude will not gain favors or promote an atmosphere conducive to officer safety.

it surprises me that some troopers are so willing to burn bridges with the agencies in their patrol zone. when you scream for help on the radio, or need a backup for a traffic stop, where do you think your backup is coming from? i read on an earlier post that fhp is severely understaffed. why then would you want to muddy the water with your closest help? not that i would EVER pass another leo on a x50 or not drive balls to the wall to come to another leo's aid, but im sure there are other's that might not feel the same.

in our profession we only have each other to depend on and in the end it is "us against them" regardless if you believe we are above the law or not. most civilians would not know how to help us even if they were so inclined to.

i've heard stories of troopers stopping cars that are x18 to calls, one so far as following a car to a sg0 and getting x15'd for interfering. personally, if i saw a trooper behind me while i was x18 to a call i would just assume they were coming as backup. it would not even cross my mind to stop. the stories i've heard all have a common and very sad undertone. trooper's tend to treat other leo's as everyone else (civilians). i am speechless when i hear these stories but i can see it happening. however, to be fair, i've not been able to substantiate any of the more horrible stories i've heard (not enough time to go into them).

the bottom line is that we need to take care of each other and not feel obligated to punish those leo's who may drive aggressively. leo's (for the most part) have been trained to drive a vehicle better than most civilians and i can understand how it might be difficult sometimes to avoid driving like a cop, even when in your pov. that is not to say we can drive impaired or recklessly as we see fit. and i mean criminally reckless, not careless. (i'm not even going to address the stories i've heard of fhp stopping uniformed leo's in marked cars.)

i do not believe we are above the law, but we are talking about a CIVIL INFRACTION. this is an area wherein we have a lot of latitude, unlike criminal infractions.

im not writing this to start a fight, or single anyone or any agency out. as i said, i recently became aware of a situation wherein one leo's lack of brotherhood came and bit back directly. i do want those who read this to at least think about what i've said here, even if you don't agree with it.

i only bring this to your forum because of the general impression i get when i hear about fhp from other leo's. it is almost like a game who can come up with the worst fhp story. i've talked to many who have had first hand experiences with fhp that were not pleasant. I've had my own both good and bad.

this is the beauty of choice and freedom of thought, anyone can have an opinion and choose to do things as they see fit. i only hope the result of those actions doesn't lead to the detriment of another leo. Animosity is an ugly thing that can have repercussions in areas not intended or desired, but happen none the less.

those who question my motives or if im even a cop, that is your business. i don't need to qualify myself to anyone nor am i so inclined. this is only food for thought and i will not entertain any attacks or other childish jibberish that i've seen on other posts. i do not care about my spelling or grammar, so don't bother correcting me unless you feel like wasting your time.

i wish we could all be on the same page and work together without the constant "i'm better than you" attitude. i realize it is in the nature of leo's to be the wolf and top dog, but it is also in our nature to work together as a team to do our job. maybe when it really comes down to it, this is all moot because there would never be a case where one brother leaves another hanging because of a grudge.

i would really like to believe that.

be safe out there and take care of each other.

a fellow leo.

Well said.

I agree with everything you said, but you are wasting your time, FHP will never undertsand what your are trying to say, because of the simple fact they just don't care.........

I heard a member at TPD got a ticket by FHP, and the member of TPD got Ofc. of the year(or something like that) for backing up a FHP Trooper. I could half way understand if they were going above the normal 15mph that 70% of citizens do, but I never would. 15 above is a dime a dozen, could get those all day long.
I say we just start dropping the names of these Troopers, Deputys, and Officers. Then when it comes time to court we know not to sit next to them and stay clear. If they are the type to do that, they are the same type that would turn you in for commenting on the legs of a state attorney or any other comment one might make.
The funny thing is that most citizens believe that the blue line still exists. It mostly does but it is a feeling of brotherhood that needs to be felt.
As with the poster, I too have a good and bad first hand story with FHP. I thank the ones that actually believe in treating each other as equals.

Some people think writing tickets for tail lights being out and 10 mph over the limit is being a good cop. They need to get a life and realize just how lame it really is. FHP sees NO DIFFERENCE between writing someone for 120 in a 70mph zone or 55 in a 45mph zone. It is all a ticket to them. It is for reasons like this that I can't wait to get out of FHP and leave this worthless part of my life behind. Maybe someday FHP and the people that work for them will get a clue.

i'm curious how many troopers, out of over 160 views, read this and had nothing to say. when i orignally posted this, i figured someone would have something to say given the wide varitey of views human beings tend to have. i wonder, did i have even the smallest effect on one of you guys out there who disagreed with me or with the spirit of this post?

i'm curious how many troopers, out of over 160 views, read this and had nothing to say. when i orignally posted this, i figured someone would have something to say given the wide varitey of views human beings tend to have. i wonder, did i have even the smallest effect on one of you guys out there who disagreed with me or with the spirit of this post?
It is just as the other poster wrote, "They don't care." They are a bunch of arrogant, ignorant automatons they cannot think for themselves. It will never change. What is humorous are the defenders who actually refute the FACT that FHP is notorious for this type of recalcitrant behavior.

i'm curious how many troopers, out of over 160 views, read this and had nothing to say. when i orignally posted this, i figured someone would have something to say given the wide varitey of views human beings tend to have. i wonder, did i have even the smallest effect on one of you guys out there who disagreed with me or with the spirit of this post?

I will respond to both of your posts. Reference the first post you made some valid points and there are some which I disagree with. Yes there are some Troopers who will write everyone. Why, I don't know, however I can tell you they are not trained that way. At no time while in the training academy (roughly 6 months) nor through FTO (roughly 10 weeks) did anyone with a badge tell me that I should write other LEO's. However, the Highway Patrol employs roughly 1600 (give or take a few) sworn law enforcement officers. I believe this is more than most agencies throughout the state. Given this information, a group this large and diverse is going to have its share of people which embaress the agency. Every agency is this country is going to have it's share of officers who do not feel the same way as the majority. This is the nature of the beast. Part of the reason that our reputation is so bad throughout the state is because we are the only major agency that interacts with every other agency throughout the state. One agency may have a bad reputation with another agency, but that is where it stops. Unfortunately, we do not have that luxury. We have Troopers in all 67 counties and interact with all 67 Sheriff's Offices and all of the local Police Departments. Yes, on occasion we step on ourselves, there is no denying that, however, I believe that the amount of emphasis you place on the Florida Highway Patrol being an agency full of people who do not believe in the brotherhood is sadly mistaken. It is down right wrong and has no base to stand on. Before you make these comments you would have to spend time to get to know the majority of the people whom you condemn, not the few people who have made a bad name for themselves.
Furthermore, any law enforcement officer who has made the comment that they would slow down and not respond for another officer in need should be ashamed of himself/ herself and be removed from the class. There is no room for people like them in this agency either.
Reference to your second post, Mr. Karma, I did not respond, nor did others from our agency, because we are tired of defending ourselves. If you read through "our board" you will find the majority of the posts are from other "brother" law enforcement officers bashing our agency. We have defended ourselves until we are "blue" in the face, and it does no good. Again, I agree with some of your points, and I believe they were posted with good taste, however, I disagreed with some as well. It would be nice if we all could get along, but with thousands of type A personalities running around wearing their opinion on their sleeve I don't see it happening anytime soon.
I wish everyone out there a safe 2007 and many more to come.

At no time while in the training academy (roughly 6 months) nor through FTO (roughly 10 weeks) did anyone with a badge tell me that I should write other LEO's.

Yours was a well written response, FHP Lt. It occurs to me, however, that YOUR time in the training academy and in FTO was a long time ago and that perhaps, as some people have stated, there is a different spirit in the academy these days.

From a personal standpoint, I intend to continue to regard every trooper (and indeed every LEO) I meet as an individual - some I will like, others I won't. Now retired, I haven't worked the road in uniform since the 1960's when one of my best friends was FHP trooper Ken Flynt and the LEO I disliked most was another FHP trooper in our county. There were also some deputies I worked with who I held in low regard. Others are my friends to this day and I socialize with them regularly.

On the issue of writing traffic tickets to fellow LEOs, I never did it. Nor did I lecture the ones I stopped.

I spend a lot of time on the Interstates and make every effort to keep my speed UNDER 10 mph over the posted limit. Yep, I "fudge" a little. If stopped I would make the trooper aware I was a retired LEO. If cited I would make no protest although I would resent it.

I disagree with those posters who think that they should get a "pass" when caught driving 20, 30 or more MPH over the posted limit. That's 90 to 100 MPH for crying out loud! No one who is off duty has any right or reason to be driving at such speeds!!! It is shameful and disrespectful of the on duty officers on patrol.

Keep up the good work. (And a little "professional courtesy" for the "minor violations" wouldn't hurt.)

:wink:

FHP Lt:

I thank you graciously for your response, however, I would like to clear a few things up.

I ABSOLUTELY agree that if ANY LEO regardless of who they are or where they work is family. Every family has members that can be questionable at times, but they are still family. I would NEVER hold a grudge that would jeopardize the life or safety of a fellow LEO. To that end, I have never passed a patrol car, FHP included, that was on a X50 by themselves. Even after my bad experience with one very horrible trooper that would not have dared talked to a citizen the way he did me. (I did not call in a complaint on him) I thought I made that point clear in my original post. I merely mentioned the POTENTIAL for one LEO to do that to another. I also indicated that it is my hope that something of that nature would never happen. Anyone who feels they could do that does not belong in uniform. I depend on all my brothers and sisters, along with my training and experience, to get me home safely and in one piece.

I'm fairly certain I did not mention that FHP lacks brotherhood. If you got that out of something I said, I misspoke. (I did mention I've had good experiences with a few) I was merely commenting on what I've seen and heard with regards to FHP in my immediate area and surrounding counties.

You have a very good point with regards to the size of your agency, and it's interactions with the other agencies in the state. The sheer number of troopers you have will undoubtedly turn up a few who have a chip on their shoulder. That is true with any agency. Again, I'm only speaking of the stories I've heard and the experiences I've had.

It seems that people tend to bash you guys alot, and you might be right in saying that you are in a very unique situation wherein your numbers and interaction with other agencies can have that effect. The things I've heard, however, that FHP has done to other LEO's I've not heard committed by other agencies.

Still, never once did I condemn FHP or its troopers, you are just plain wrong there. If you read anything into what I've said it should be that I am unquestionably for the brotherhood and the thin blue line, which includes FHP. So you definately misunderstood me there.

Lt, I realize you guys have taken a lot of grief from other agencies and have been on the defensive a lot as a result. I was hoping to illicit a response from a trooper to speak about something that really concerns me, and it should concern you. I do not like the reputation I've seen that FHP in general has obtained. As you said, it is probably based on a few troopers and does not represent the majority. However, the actions of a few can have a profound effect on the majority and can run the risk of being broadly applied to all. These people not only make a name for themselves, but their agency as well. I was not looking for you to defend yourself, just to hear what you had to say about my thoughts.

As to you indicating that troopers are not trained to write other LEO's, I could not comment on that. But I have heard some things from a very close buddy of mine who is former FHP. But, as in my other post, it is not my intention to bash you guys. Believe me when I say, I've heard a lot about FHP. I just dont think it's appropriate to go over general things when I'm speaking of a broad topic.

You are probably right about the A type personalities and things not changing anytime soon, I mentioned something similar to that as well. However, I also mentioned that it is a LEO's nature to work together. I don't know any of any LEO that can handle everything all by himself. Even robocop needed back-up on occasion. If one person thought about that and it permeated into their being, then maybe it might catch on to someone else.

If there was a way to end the in-fighting that is part of our job, things might be better. Every agency has people who probably don't belong on the job, but they are there. If I heard about another agency what I've heard about FHP, then I would have gone to their board. As it is, I'm here. I am in no way bashing your agency or its troopers. I am not calling into question your brotherhood. I am saying that FHP has a reputation that, while it may not be representative of the majority, is nonetheless not very good.

I'm glad you took the time to respond Lt. Even more so, I'm glad you took the time to post something well written and not negative in nature. I hope I clarified myself from the first post.

All that said, I want to extend my condolences on your recent loss. Although it does not change anything, I was very happy to hear the people involved were rounded up so quickly. You guys did an excellent job on that, and I thank you. He and his family are in my thoughts and prayers.

On a side note, I want to encourage everyone who reads this to wear their vests. I did not hear if the Sgt. had his on, but I've noticed a lot of seasoned LEO's do not. Not that it is a magic shield, but it (as well as your seatbelt) could save your life someday. Your family, both on the job and at home, would be very grateful. I don't know if it would have helped, but I heard Matt Williams did not have his on.

Be safe out there.

To the genius that posted under the name TampaPD, do us real TampaPD cops a favor. Don't speak for all of us. Put your name on the post or do't associate yourself with our agency. That is exactly how the anomosity between agencies starts, when a bonehead like yourself begins speaking for all of us.

The Cops Writing Cops issue has been beat to death, specifically the Burgos and King issues. I agree with most that hopefully the young trooper has learned the error of his ways and has had the necessary talking to from the other troopers. If not, his time will come.

Then you come on the board and speak of some guy at TPD got a ticket from FHP. Then you have to associate it with Officer of the Year. We at TPD know who that is and I guess the Officer of the Year thing is supposed to mean that he "really" shouldn't gave received a citation. Like I said, the TPD and the Officer of the Year had no place in your post.

If you really want to air dirty laundry, how about our motor officer (no name needed) that writes the family members of our own officers? Go ahead and try to defend him but to correct you before you start, the officer's last name is not one that anyone that has been a cop for any period of time wouldn't recognize. That motor officer knows not only the husband but his brother who is also a cop at TPD. Was I supposed to throw in something to compete with the "Officer of the Year" monikor that you spoke of to validate his wife getting off of the ticket? How about he just risked his own life running into a burning building and pulling an unconscious man out that would have otherwise died.

I think you get my point. We all have our disgraces that go out everyday and stick it to the hardworking citizens because they validate themselves with it but follow those same a$$holes to and from work and see how fast they are driving.

I think it is time to stop bashing FHP as a whole and move on. Just think Mr TampaPD post, we can't even clean up the disgraces at our own department so until you can do that, don't ask it of FHP.

To those FHP Troopers that need that one ticket so bad, maybe someday the light will come on for you. To all the other Troopers, be safe out there and understand that TPD will always have your back. To all of the other LEOs cutting through Tampa, we have the a$$holes too, so if they do cite you, please don't think that they do so with out approval.

Sorry for your loss and be safe.