PCSO Deputy calls Chief Aradi a Whiner

http://www.leoaffairs.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8336

Sheriff's Office hides behind 1st Amendment for name calling, missing the point and whatever else serves their purpose . . .

[Ten6Niner]

http://www.leoaffairs.com/./viewtopic.php?t=8336

Sheriff's Office hides behind 1st Amendment for name calling, missing the point and whatever else serves their purpose . . .

"...hides behind the 1st Amendment..."?! If any of our rights are sacred, the right to criticize those who work for us in positions of power is one!

Also the letter to the editor makes a valid point. I'm willing to participate in any discussion on valid reasons why law enforcement shouldn't consolidate in Pinellas County.

To help things along, the following is a quote from one of my posts elswhere:

"I disagree that the ignorant post about following the garbage man reflects on PCSO. That kind of thinking is an example of a poor attitude, regardless of what uniform they are wearing.

A good cop is a good cop. I know many who were good cops at their previous agency, and when they came to PCSO, they were...............you guessed it! A good cop!

Don't let ignorant fools mold your opinion of an entire group."

This is my way of saying, the uniform doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the person wearing it, other than where they get their paychecks.

Alright, "Largo Citizen" your turn. Quit typing trash and let me know a valid, quantifiable reason why any city in Pinellas County needs their own police department.

You don't "hide" behind the first amendment: you stand proudly and state your opinion. That is the beauty of this country. If that deputy thinks that it would be better to consolidate police services in this county then let him express his opinion and attempt to convince others of the merit of his idea.

The deputy who wrote the letter did not resort to name calling or insults. He laid out his opinion. Good for him.

I work for Largo. I like being a police officer and serving our community. I really don't care if I wear blue or green (just not confederate pink). I don't really want to work for a large agency. I have nothing against PCSO, y'all do a great job. I prefer to work in a smaller agency and I like the opportunity to do so. But is a selfish reason like "I like to work for a smaller agency" a good reason to stop consolodation? Probably not. Either way, we are all have the same goals and objectives :helping our communities and arresting criminals (and occasionally tasering them).

10-69er,

First off, the fact that you are quoting yourself in your own post is a little creepy. Second, if you read the original on PCSO's board, you'll see that I am questioning LW's self-serving motivation and method, not his argument. If you have a dog in the fight, identify yourself.

Valid and quantifiable? Back north, you may notice that state police and city police operate without the use of a "sheriff's department." So what would be your valid, quantifiable reason why we need a sheriff's department? Because bigger is better? So sadly predictable. . .

[Ten6Niner]

Up north, they have State POLICE. Here, the state uniformed law enforcement agency is the Highway Patrol. While they are woefully understaffed, their primary job is the safety and security of the traffic ways of the State of Florida.

The Constitution of the State of Florida says that the Sheriff of each County is the chief law enforcement officer of their respective counties.

So, as were are not "up north," and the Constitution of our great State indicates that the Sheriffs are responsible for law enforcement, your argument should be "Why do we need City Police Departments?"

Why municipal policing? Because the Florida State Constitution recognizes the right of the people to self-government (see Article VIII).

"Section 4, Art. VIII, State Const., does not require the city to hold a referendum to approve a contract for the provision of the city's law enforcement functions by the sheriff since the city, by retaining the authority to cancel the contract, has not abrograted its ultimate responsibility to supervise law enforcement functions."--Florida Attorney General

Other than in unincorporated areas, deputy sheriff's are contract workers. A municipality may terminate the contract with the sheriff's office with 60 days notice. The sheriff has no authority over a municipal government.

If the citizens and their elected officials support a police department to handle law enforcement functions, it is their right by law. Take a civics lesson.

Oh, I noticed on another board that you posted that you are deputy. Isn't that where this whole discussion started?

Nice shot. Really, really nice shot.
#28

[Ten6Niner]

I never said the Cities didn't have a right to have their own Police Departments. I was rebutting your comment about State Police and the service they perform Up North compared to here.

While cities have the right to have a Police Department, I'm saying it isn't always the right thing to do. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

I never claimed the Sheriff had any power over the municipal governments where his deputies provide contract services, and I'm fully aware of the contract relationship between the Sheriff and the municipalities he serves, as I currently work in a contract city, and have read the contract.

Well, actualy, there are several reasons for having local jurisdictions controlling their law enforcement functions. The agency I now work for has only 15 people and services a municipality of some 7K people. But our average response time is less than 2 minutes. And our UCR clearance rate for the last 6 months was 55.9%. Previous to that it was 70.3%. The reason for that is that there is a great depth of knowledge of local dirtbags and they tend to stay in the area. If we don't know who did it, we know who to talk to that does. That's what you get with local control. The larger the agency becomes, the less responsive they are to local concerns - it's just the nature of the beast.
But why stop at the county level? Why not merge all Law Enforcement in the state? It is then that you would see the Sheriffs squeal like stuck pigs (no pun intended) about how important local control is. To go even further, why shouldn't we nationalize police service? Have a national Polizei like Germany?
I think the answer to that may be that Americans like local control of their Government. We have, traditionally, had a healthy fear of concentrating too much power in too few hands. And frankly, I think that's a good idea.
#28

Steve,

Isn't that why the south left the union in the 1860's? I mean they wanted and fought for local and states rights because big government was seen by 13 state governments as just as bad as having been ruled by a king.

I would think that some things could be combined without losing the "personal" level of service. Support services like dispatch, evidence, records, and computer systems could be merged with all Pinellas agencies. I think it would be very cost effective and way more efficient not to mention the flood of information that would allow us to do our jobs better.

Metro Dade has had some major problems because they are "too" big. Certain municipalities are trying to get out of the "metro" and go back to thier own departments. In any case, I have said this many times, let's do our jobs, back each other up, and stop bashing other agencies.

I don't think the answer is all Pinellas County law enforcement being in the same uniform. But we should at least all be on the same CAD, to include reports and other support services. Our areas of responsibility cross over so much that if there is a city officer calling 10-24 and there are Deputies 10-8 closer than another city officer (and vice versa) it would be nice to know. I'm not saying that city officers are inept or anything negative. There are just a large amount of cops on the road and I'd be sick to my stomach if something bad happened to another cop and I was available, and in the area, but knew nothing about the situation and could have helped.

There is my $.02 worth, and I do not need any change, thank you.

Hey since you are up to date on Florida Law, who does the Sheriff answer to? It would be the Medical examiner. He/she is the chief of Law Enforcement in the county they serve.

[Ten6Niner]

Hey since you are up to date on Florida Law, who does the Sheriff answer to? It would be the Medical examiner. He/she is the chief of Law Enforcement in the county they serve.

Sorry to disagree with a fellow deputy, but according to FSS 406 and the website of the District 6 Medical Examiner's Office:

"The Medical Examiner is a physician trained in forensic pathology and is appointed by the Governor, to investigate violent, suspicious or unnatural deaths. The Medical Examiner has a duty to determine objectively the cause and manner of death in such cases and is assisted by medical examiner investigators and law enforcement personnel.

The Medical Examiner is independent of every law enforcement agency, hospital, or local government and provides forensic services under annual contracts with Pinellas and Pasco Counties."

It appears from this that the independence and separation of the ME from law enforcement is statutorily established.

Why municipal policing? Because the Florida State Constitution recognizes the right of the people to self-government (see Article VIII).

"Section 4, Art. VIII, State Const., does not require the city to hold a referendum to approve a contract for the provision of the city's law enforcement functions by the sheriff since the city, by retaining the authority to cancel the contract, has not abrograted its ultimate responsibility to supervise law enforcement functions."--Florida Attorney General

Other than in unincorporated areas, deputy sheriff's are contract workers. A municipality may terminate the contract with the sheriff's office with 60 days notice. The sheriff has no authority over a municipal government.

If the citizens and their elected officials support a police department to handle law enforcement functions, it is their right by law. Take a civics lesson.

Oh, I noticed on another board that you posted that you are deputy. Isn't that where this whole discussion started?

Actually the Sheriff has more authority than any Law Enforcement official in the county, just as the state police do in northern states. The Sheriff can't force a city to merge with him, and you're correct the city can abolish the contract, but when the Sheriff is in the city, he has more authority than the chief of Police. He's bound by the constitution of Florida, where a Chief is bound by a city charter than can be pulled by FDLE should the city screw things up. The Sheriff is the Chief Law Enforcement officer of his county. Read the link below about FHP and it will tell you the Sheriff of a County is the Chief LEO. I'm not a cop, but a professor of criminal law at Florida Atlantic. The people who don't think there's a need for a metro police force are out of their mind, and obviously not cops. If it weren’t so effective so many cities all over the country wouldn't be supporting the idea. Not every agency will go metro, but the need for a larger police force with many resources is vitally important should a natural disaster strike, a large riot, or a 911 event. In a poll conducted by several organizations, it was found that older generations perfer the Mayberry police forces, and younger generations support a metro police force. Why wouldn't you want your own police force in a city, citizens can push them around. The only person who can push around the Sheriff is the Governor. It also more cost effective to have a metro police force.

For those saying Miami-Dade has problems because they are too big, you are also oblivious. Miami Dade has been mismanaged since the beginning. The city of Miami has more problems than Miami-Dade. Many of you judge a metro based on Miami Dade, but don't look at cities like Charlotte NC, Louisville, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Lexington, New York, LA, Chicago, Indianapolis, King County Washington, even Broward County to name a few. The state of Virginia has mostly county police and state police and have far fewer crimes than Florida.

Don't even get me started with Miami Gardens PD. The only reason they are forming is so the "minorities" can control their city. That’s what it boils down to is the need for citizens to control their police. The city manager of Miami Gardens is same Metro Dade Officer arrested for refusing to sing a citation and resisting officer with violence in Orange County, FL. Citizens should not control or police the police. With too many cities you end up with too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. For those who feel small cities don't have problems, ha ha, yea right, there is more of a good ole boy system in a small town than a larger city. Look at Hollywood Florida, 6 cops arrested recently at Hollywood PD for corruption issues, a West Palm Cop arrested for snorting coke on duty. This has been going on for years. The citizens who like their own government haven't fixed this problem in Hollywood for over 30 years.

Anyway, good luck changing the change in times, metro Law Enforcement and Fire service is coming especially when the Governor implements the property tax reform. Most cities are looking at a forty million dollar decrease in their budget. A city PD with a four million dollar budget will end up with a one million dollar budget. It's only a matter of time before we see a metro style police force. Not all agencies will fall, but the majority will.

The below link will give you information about FHP's powers and show the Sheriff is the LEO of a county.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Highway_Patrol

My God, you're a PROFESSOR? Other than the occasional subject/verb agreement problem and nutbar reasoning, I can't think of a reason why you shouldn't be. The citizens do, in fact, control the police through their elected representatives... and the Sheriff gets "pushed around" every 4 years when he has to suck up to the electorate ( which, frankly, can be really, really funny - I remember catching on-duty Deputies pulling down campaign signs for the incumbent's opposition on midnight shift...on the other hand, it was fun to slap a "Bubba the Love Sponge" bumper sticker on the odd PCSO cruiser that year). And I find it hard to believe that you use Wikipedia as an authoritative source. Give me a couple of minutes and it'll say that the Sheriffs of FL are all Transexuals (oops! different thread).
And how, exactly, do you "sing" a citation?
#28

My God, you're a PROFESSOR? Other than the occasional subject/verb agreement problem and nutbar reasoning, I can't think of a reason why you shouldn't be. The citizens do, in fact, control the police through their elected representatives... and the Sheriff gets "pushed around" every 4 years when he has to suck up to the electorate ( which, frankly, can be really, really funny - I remember catching on-duty Deputies pulling down campaign signs for the incumbent's opposition on midnight shift...on the other hand, it was fun to slap a "Bubba the Love Sponge" bumper sticker on the odd PCSO cruiser that year). And I find it hard to believe that you use Wikipedia as an authoritative source. Give me a couple of minutes and it'll say that the Sheriffs of FL are all Transexuals (oops! different thread).
And how, exactly, do you "sing" a citation?
#28

First, be careful correcting spelling errors when your spelling isn't prefect. The words italicized and bolded above are incorrect. Not to mention, it's improper grammar to begin a sentence with "and".

That's behind us, I have to agree with what the professor said. I see the benefits to a Metro style law enforcement agency, yet I can understand why some residents prefer a city PD. I see contract policing a part of Florida's future. I don't see every agency participating, but I do see some agencies merging with the Sheriff's Office. I see the need for at least one large agency to provide support services to cities such as K-9, helicopters, marine patrol, detectives, dispatch, evidence etc. I also see rich cities wanting to keep their PD so they can control the police. I agree Sheriff's do get push around once in a while, but not as much as smaller PD's. To be honest, I haven't read really anything positive about any city within Pinellas county. Anyway, we are all cops regardless of whether we wear tan, green, or blue.

I'm not sure where you were going with the wikipedia thing, but it happens to be a credible source. This also being a credible source that states a Sheriff is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in the county.http://flsheriffs.org/meet.htm Who cares? I enjoy Largo PD, but wouldn't be upset if I worked for the Sheriff. I wouldn't be upset to work in Largo as a Sheriff contract or a metro law enforcement. Be safe and remember we are our brother's keeper.I find it truly amazing how many cops don't get along and be little one another over stupid things .

Imagine my surprise to find that nutbar isn't a real word and that Transexual shouldn't be capitalized. "Not to mention " isn't exactly correct English either -but sometimes we use words for emphasis and to communicate a sense of how we want the written word to sound as it's read.
Geez, ( not a real word, either ) does that stick up your but hurt when you sit down?
#28

Imagine my surprise to find that nutbar isn't a real word and that Transexual shouldn't be capitalized. "Not to mention " isn't exactly correct English either -but sometimes we use words for emphasis and to communicate a sense of how we want the written word to sound as it's read.
Geez, ( not a real word, either ) does that stick up your but hurt when you sit down?
#28

Just so you know "transexual" spelt correctly is transsexual. Maybe if you weren't a prick your spelling wouldn't matter. Since you come across like you're better than everyone else maybe it's you that has the stick up your "butt" not "but" like you posted. Anyway, again be safe.

#38

Actually, either spelling of Stanton's midlife crisis is correct. One s or two - they're synonyms. As for me being a prick - this is news?
I am truly sorry about the lack of a t on butt but I am working with a handicap here - remember the stumpy finger?
And aren't you ready to retire yet?
#28
PS - don't get so upset, man. You know your face gets all red and that one vein on your forehead stands out. A man of your years should be more careful.

PS - tell Scott I'm sorry about Bear.
#28