PDA

View Full Version : Tampa Tribune Article - Contract Voted Down



chipdeblock
10-20-2006, 05:14 AM
I was impressed to see the number of officers who voted on the contract issue (807 of you). Even more impressive was the ability of a vast majority (539) to stick together in doing something rather difficult, voting down a proposed contract. I haven't seen that kind of unity in years.

On Friday (today) there will be a newspaper article in the Tampa Tribune by reporter Valerie Kalfrin. It will cover our voting down of the proposed contract with the City and try to explain to the public why. It is very important that the public understands our true motivation for voting "No" so they don't get the wrong impression that we're a bunch of greedy public servants. This Message Board will be swamped with citizens on Friday reading to find out what's going on. You have a rare opportunity to let them hear your voice and, perhaps, support your cause.

I realize that I am not your representative and that I don't speak on behalf of everyone. At the same time, I have spoken with a good number of officers and believe that the most pressing issue is Health Care Cost (competitive pricing while we are active employees and a coverage benefit when we retire). This level of importance was also revealed in the top two priorities of the PBA survey that we took. However, for whatever reason, these concerns were not adequately addressed in the proposed contract (from my point of view).

Citizens are probably not aware of the number of retired cops (even recently retired) who have had to come out of retirement in order to pay their health care costs. They are working at Home Depot, Target, Wal-Mart and even taking civilian positions with the City just to get health care benefits. Many officers are still employed at the police department, years after qualifying for retirement, simply because they cannot afford to leave. Some of those who have retired will now be paying $948 a month (1/3 of their pension) in health care costs. That is unacceptable! Next, consider the decreased life expectancy of police officers (due to the job) and you'll begin to get the picture.

We realize that we have a dangerous but important job and we're not complaining about that. We simply want what we really need, and that’s a health care benefit. If we are unable to secure this benefit, then we will need a better pay package so we don't lose 25% - 33% of our pension as soon as we retire. It can mean the difference between an officer having to postpone his retirement for an additional 5 to 10 years. It's a quality of life issue for us.

Many officers have lost faith that we will get a health care benefit package and concentrate on the money issue (instead of the dead issue). Don't get me wrong, we need competitive pay too, but I think the most important issue here (and the most beneficial to us) is the health care package. It is my belief that we'd rather have the benefit.

So why dig our heels in and fight now? It's probably our best chance in the foreseeable future to get this accomplished. The City of Tampa's Property Tax revenues have increased 72% in recent years to $167.7 million. They have grown more than twice the rate of personal income growth in Florida during the past 6 years. Home prices in Florida have increased 77% in the last three years. In other words, things are getting tight. Also, a number of police agencies across the country (including the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office) now have a health care benefit (including a Free benefit) for their retired officers.

Hopefully the citizens of Tampa will understand our plight and support us. If any officer is motivated differently than what I described here or if he agrees, please feel free to post in this string on the topic.

Thanks for your support!

Chip DeBlock, Co-Founder
LEOAFFAIRS.COM(tm)
chip@leoaffairs.com

Sysop
10-20-2006, 05:23 AM
http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBU1KWYHTE.html

chipdeblock
10-20-2006, 06:02 AM
OK, before I get chewed for leaving it out, almost everyone I encountered had serious problems with the Senior/Master Rank requirement of Satisfactory Evaluation (ME) in order to maintain your pay. There were a lot of concerns over the application of this provision.

10-20-2006, 10:52 AM
Wow! I read thru a lot of information here and I guess what really troubles me the most is the medical situation. But not for the reasons you are probably thinking. If it's really nearly impossible for you guys to get insurance on your own because as police officers you are too high of a risk...and then after all that you don't even live as long as the rest of us because of the job you've chosen...well, I don't know what to say..? A thankyou seems hardly enough. Actually, giving you guys paid medical when you retire may not be enough either. You have my support and that of my entire family.

10-20-2006, 11:10 AM
When one starts to read this story they could easily assume that the cops are just out to get a buck and out for themselves. But, that facade quckly diminishes. If all you desire is a decent raise and health care to keep you from having to work at the local McDonalds when you retire, then I am with you. There must be a way to do this, especially when other departments and unions are accomplishing this for their membership. Why not you and yours? I agree that the benefit is something to fight for and now I understand. If you don't get it (shame on them). The amount of extra money you will need to make up for the lost benefit is actually quite a bit more than the benefit itself thanks to taxes. Good luck

10-20-2006, 11:13 AM
I mean no disrespect but what is the life expectancy of police officers?

10-20-2006, 11:44 AM
Think about the civilians. Personally, I've have to give up taking medications because I simply can not afford it. And our cost of living...it's poverty now. I pay the same homeowners insurance, real estate taxes, gas prices, food prices, my ride to and from work, parking fees..the expenses are the same. We all feel the pain, but the City runs our Union. Doesn't matter if we ALL join, the City runs and quite possibly owns the Union. I know the Officers should get more money..we're in this just the same. Hopefully, the PBA can bring the City to their knees and cough up better benefits. Good luck.

10-20-2006, 05:40 PM
THANK YOU CHIP, FOR BEING THERE FOR US ( THE LITTLE GUYS ). THAT WAS A VERY INFORMATIVE AND ACCURATE ASSUMPTION OF THE PROBLEMS WHERE HAVING, WITH TRYING TO OBTAIN SOME RELIEF IN RETIREMENT. IF YOU WERE THE PBA PRESIDENT...YOU WOULD HAVE MY VOTE. THANKS AGAIN CHIP .

10-20-2006, 06:53 PM
Chip you have and always will be Da Man in my eyes, and thanks for the post. I'll admit that the Health Ins.issue was up there,but I'd have to say the the vast majority of officers I've spoken with say that the MPO eval issue was the main straw that broke the camels back.

10-20-2006, 08:06 PM
IN THE PAST WE HAVE VOTED IN CONTRACTS THAT GAVE US 0%, 2%, ETC. WE VOTED IT IN BECAUSE THE COST OF LIVING WAS NOT HIGH, AND WE UNDERSTOOD THAT THE CITY DID NOT HAVE MONEY. WE WERE FAIR!

HOWEVER, WE ARE LIVING IN DIFFERENT TIMES. EVERYTHING HAS GONE UP, AND WE KNOW THAT THE CITY HAS MONEY. THE CHIEF TOLD US THAT THE CITY HAS MONEY AND OUR P.B.A. PRESIDENT HAS TOLD US THAT THE CITY HAS MONEY. SO IT IS TIME FOR THE CITY TO BE FAIR TO US!

WE HAVE WORKED EXTRA HARD THE PAST FEW YEARS, WHICH RESULTED IN A MAJOR CRIME REDUCTION IN THIS CITY. CERTAIN PEOPLE GOT BONUSES FOR CRIME REDUCTION, BUT WE WERE THE ONES THAT DID THE DIRTY WORK, AND WERE IN THE LINE OF FIRE. IT WAS NOT LONG AGO THAT GRECO GAVE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT A 6-6-6 CONTRACT. WE THINK WE SHOULD GET THE SAME!

WE LEAVE OUR HOMES EVERYDAY NOT KNOWING IF WE WILL SEE OUR FAMILIES AGAIN. WE GO TO WORK, GET HURT WHEN WE HAVE TO FIGHT SCUM BAGS THAT DON'T WANT TO GO TO JAIL, GET EXPOSED TO INFECTIOUS DISEASES, GET SHOT AT, WORK HOLIDAYS AND ADVERSE SHIFTS.

AFTER WORKING OUR 11.5 HOUR SHIFT WE SOMETIMES HAVE TO SPEND SEVERAL HOURS IN COURT. THEN GO HOME GET 3 OR 4 HOURS OF SLEEP, IF WE ARE LUCKY, AND THEN DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. THE LIST GOES ON AND ON OF THE SACRIFICES THAT WE AND OUR FAMILIES MAKE.

I LOVE THIS JOB AND WOULD NOT TRADE IT FOR ANY OTHER JOB. I LOVE HELPING THE COMMUNITY, AND FIGHTING CRIME, BUT IS IT WRONG OF US TO ASK TO BE TREATED FAIR DURING OUR CAREER AND WHEN WE RETIRE? IS IT FAIR THAT WE MAKE ALL THESE SACRIFICIES DURING OUR TENURE, THEN RETIRE, AND HAVE TO CONTINUE TO WORK IN ORDER TO PAY ALMOST 1K A MONTH FOR HEALTH INSURANCE. IS IT SO WRONG FOR US TO ASK FOR AFFORDABLE HEALTH INSURANCE, AFTER ALL WE ARE NOT EXPECTED TO LIVE THAT LONG AFTER RETIREMENT!

" the life expectancy for a police officer is 15 years less than the average American, and nationally, 50% of all police officers will die from heart disease within five years of retirement".


"The law enforcement profession is becoming more complex and stressful as we enter the 21st century. Solid research has shown the life expectancy, after retirement, of a police officer is much shorter than that of the the general population. The suicide rate, divorce rate, and a host of other health related issues, including alcohol abuse, is much higher for police officers than the current national averages. The reasons for these problems are many, complex and varied. Unique occupational stresses: shift work, sleep deprivation, critical incident exposure, cumulative and organizational stress, and leadership issues all play a part. Lack of proper diet and exercise coupled with the many stresses of the job is a disasterous recipe often ending in premature death, or a life which, at best, may be categorized as "non-wellness". Family issues also play a major role in the overall health and wellbeing of a law enforcement officer. The attitude, health and emotional stability of the law enforcement officer affects the harmony, or lack of harmony, in an officer's home. Children, spouses and significant others are all victims of crippling job stress."

WELL, I CAN GO ON, BUT I THINK THAT I HAVE TOUCHED ON SOME OF THE MAIN ISSUE THAT CAUSED THIS CONTRACT TO BE VOTED DOWN BY THE MEMBERSHIP. ALL WE WANT IS TO BE TREATED RIGHT AND FAIR.

AND FOR THE CITIZENS THAT MIGHT READ THIS, REST ASSURED THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT CRIME AND KEEP YOU SAFE. WE TOOK AN OATH TO DO THAT, AND NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE IT!

10-21-2006, 02:16 AM
To Chip DeBlock:

Great post, Chip! In my view the health insurance benefits and premium costs are the most important issue that needs attention in negotiations.

I am retired from HCSO and for a while I served on the county Retiree's Insurance Committee. It is clear that the county is trying to cut all strings with the retirees regarding health insurance. They are even urging retirees to get into alternative health plans which takes them out of the basic county plan, knowing that once a retiree is out of the plan it is impossible to return.

At the time of retirement the retiree is obligated to pay the entire health care premium, which is hovering at around $900 a month!

What is also disturbing is that when a deputy first retires he gets a health insurance "stipend" from the county which is, like the Florida Retirement System stipend, based upon years of service. An attempt to increase this stipend at the state level just failed in the state legislature.

And to add insult to injury, the county terminates the county stipend when the deputy reaches "Medicare Age" in spite of the fact that obtaining Medicare Part B imposes an additional cost on the retiree. So, the retiree's income goes DOWN at the precise time that health care premium costs go UP. Go figure!

So far the PBA has declined to try to obtain health care premium payments as a contract negotiation benefit for deputies. Their initial position was that they did not negotiate for "retirees" because they were not part of the bargaining unit. They seem incapable of understanding that they should be negotiating a FUTURE retirement benefit for ACTIVE officers.

I urge TPD officers to make health care benefits and premiums one of your most urgent issues, both now and in retirement.


To The Voice:

I find your quote that 50% of all police officers die from heart disease within fire years of retirement most distressing - since I retired in early 2002! (I had one heart attack back in the mid-1990s when there was no presumption under workers' compensation that police officer heart attacks were work related. A presumption that firefighters did have.)

Anyway - I hope to beat the odds on that statistic!

:D

10-21-2006, 05:05 AM
Chip, once again you bring sensibility and reason to the issues. I was shocked that Rich O'Connor's plan was dismissed by the PBA leadership. I also heard that to off set health costs while retired the PBA and the Fire Union wanted to redesign the 13th check. The concept that was explained to me was that it was going to be paid out annually and the amount would significantly help retirees with health insurance costs. It is troubling that this info. was not presented to the membership. It is also troubling that the survey info. was not posted by the PBA and how informaton about the proposals was dispersed.
The majority of officers, detectives, and supervisors of T.P.D are true professionals and work hard to protect the citizens of Tampa. I think that we should be fairly compensated as initially negotiated. I was upset how quickly the negotiators bargained down the proposal.
We have leadership in full time positions. One would think that this would allow for more dedication on their behalf to the issues that are important to the members that they are suppose to serve.
Hopefully when these important issues are resolved more members will get involved. I know many true leaders among the rank and file who would serve us well on the PBA and be professional. True leaders serve their members and know that leadership is not an entitlement.
Chip and Jim keep up the good work.

10-21-2006, 12:27 PM
You know what, this article exemplifies how worthless our PBA is. Instead of Durkin speaking out as to what the problems were and trying to gain some public support, he simply stated that he was going to talk to officers to see why it was voted down. If he doesn't know the reason it was voted down, he must sleep all day in that nice office of his. What a waste of a golden opportunity. At least Chip said what Durkin should have.

10-22-2006, 03:32 AM
Good for you guys, I hope you get something you can live with. I'm impressed on how many guys stuck together. Good luck!!! keep together and you cannot lose.

10-22-2006, 07:23 PM
Well with UNITY we can get things done. The Fact of the matter is, that this is the time to be heard. If we don't FIGHT strong for a Health Care Retirement Benefit, as soon as the contract is voted in, you'll never hear anything about it again. It will be BUSINESS AS USUAL and the discussion will never come up again for another 3 years. Then the city will cry fowl and where broke, we can't get this done (LIES). Well the fact of the matter is friends, the CITY OF NEW YORK is broke and they get it done. It's called a uniform plan and dedication by members willing to FIGHT for a BENEFIT. If I'm contributing money out of my pay check, the city can do the same and give us RELIEF in a Health Care Retirement Fund. Rich O'Connor's Plan is a good first start.

10-23-2006, 07:08 AM
In addition to retiring after your 20 or more, take into consideration those who may have to retire early due to other issues. If you have a non-line of duty injury/medical issue at an early age or point in your career, it will be that much harder to get another job to cover the costs. The Heart/Lung bill doesn't guarantee you can retire, ask Det. Tony Smith. Only those that are approved to "65 and out" on a duty related medical disability/workman's comp. get any coverage and only for the issue which forced them to retire. Do your own math, 65% of what you make now, even if it's not taxed....will that do? What if you had a family to take care of?

Let's not forget that since we pay into a pension, we're not paying into social security to get those benefits (not that they are anything to write home about). Not only do we have the monthly premiums, how about prescriptions? Young or old(er), some folks require some expensive meds for survival. In case you haven't checked, ask your parents how many/much their prescriptions are. Generally speaking, the longer you live the more medication you require to do so. I have a covered family member who has a med which costs $5000.00 a month and will have to have it for the rest of their life. (Yes, five thousand dollars). On a pension only income, there would be no way we could afford it without insurance no matter what our "top-out" pay was. Before some of you start your negative rantings, it's not like any of us asked for medical conditions requiring expensive medication. Would you want to be denied if it was you or yours? You don't know what your future may bring, and if you helped to deny it now, then what'll you do?

Did you know that Medicare/Medicaid makes you use up all your money/savings to the point of indigency before they pick up the tab? So much for leaving anything to my kids!

The 13th check has been more of a myth than a reality for our retirees. The idea was to provide an additional check to offset the insurance cost and COLA. No, I'm not retired, but my dad is, so I know firsthand what their struggles are. When he came on, his starting pay was about $4000.00 a year and he paid large percentages of his subsequent income into the pension. Can you blame them for wanting better? That may be you and I some day. Yet another "promise" for those no longer to be covered by the bargaining unit. Remember when the DROP was first proposed and that first group was told it was "a done deal" for the 4% multiplier? Many of them signed up and were shafted. They were not allowed to back out. For the new officers, when you go into the DROP, you are technically "retired" and your pension contributions go into a different money market type account. You are still actively working and many in the DROP are still on the street. If you are injured, it's on you.

My dad's been retired for 15 years and his wife, also former TPD, is having to consider returning to work after being retired almost 10 years! I can assure you they do not live "high on the hog" in a gated community with luxury cars and $800 handbags as someone posted in another thread. (Nor do I, for that matter). Is this the quality of life we deserve when we retire? Isn't the concept of retirement to relax and enjoy our remaining years, knowing we already put in our time working?

For those of you that think we are overpaid for our "blue collar" work and not deserving of anything more than we already have, I invite you to participate in our Ride-Along Program, then compare us to attorneys and doctors and see what we're worth.

LEOs are better educated, better trained and expected to hold a higher standard and degree of professionalism than in decades past. Our department is accredited, just like colleges and other professions. (I don't think sandwich makers are accredited, again from another thread). Yes, there was a time when a college education was not required. That was also true for many other jobs and careers. Try to find one now that doesn't require an education and pays decent. Now either college or military experience, in addition to certification courses (which count as college credit towards a degree), is required to work for this agency. There are several of us lowly "blue collar" workers with Master's Degrees. (mine's in Rehabilitation Counseling from USF). There are many more with, or working on, their college degrees. We also take career enhancement courses specifically dealing with our profession.

We routinely deal with violence against us; insults and sneers; parents using our presence to threaten their kids if they didn't behave (that's nice, make the kids afraid of us...that's handy when they might need our help someday); lack of respect or cooperation when we are "doing our job", even when you're the one who called us (attorneys can drop their clients if they don't want to deal with their nonsense); exposure to TB, HIV, Hepatitis A-C, God knows what other diseases (doctors get to don protective gear first and have immediate access to anti-viral/anti-bacterial products and water) and a myriad of other less than pleasant situations. Even Fire Rescue won't come on scene until we have it stabilized! And Heaven forbid we say ANYTHING that is not ultra-professional and complimentary. We must be abusing our authority; trying to make our ticket quota (which we don't have); racist (it doesn't matter which race we are); or just bad cops...we have to take it and not let it affect us while we are "doing our job". How easy is it for you when one of the corporate world does something against you? How about a perfect stranger? After all, you were only doing your job or living your life...

Yes I chose this career, wanting to defend those who could not defend themselves, and I love my job. It seems you believe I should not expect to be treated as you are. I also should not expect to be in my home and not have my car vandalized, burglarized, yard torn up, mailbox knocked down or people knocking on my door to tell me their husband is down the street at another woman's house and want me to do something about it. When was the last time someone harassed you at your home because of your job title?

So take a look at the total picture and get the facts before you make those ridiculous and ignorant comments. We are entitled to the same freedoms, dreams and goals that you are. In fact, it is with our support that you can attain and keep yours.

Thin Blue Line, we need to take care of ourselves now and for our futures. I thank you guys that had the foresight to hold out for something better. We do deserve it.

Kim

10-23-2006, 02:50 PM
Did you know that Medicare/Medicaid makes you use up all your money/savings to the point of indigency before they pick up the tab? So much for leaving anything to my kids!



Where in the world did you get that mistaken idea?

I suspect you have it confused with some Social Security benefits which are only available to the indigent.

First off, distinguish between Medicare and Medicaid. Medicare is available only to those who have paid into the system for a certain period of time and these contributions are usually made through FICA (Social Security) deductions. Does your agency make a deduction to assure you will be Medicare covered when you reach age 65? If not, you will NOT have Medicare available. (I was in a private retirement system, and my agency did not take out Social Security, but they DID take out enough to make me Medicare eligible.)

Medicaid is a jointly funded federal/state program for the INDIGENT. Retired cops with a pension will probably not qualify for this program. In any case, if you are already indigent you don't have to worry about using up all your assets before you are covered.

But, back to Medicare. I have a very comfortable retirement income and I get every Medicare benefit that is available to every other Medicare participant. On this one issue you have made an error in what you posted.

I agree with much of the rest of your post.

I have said over and over that the most important long term benefit that you should be bargaining for is full payment of your health insurance benefits in retirement. This is really big money!

Best of luck.

10-23-2006, 10:08 PM
I could not recall whether it was Medicaid or Medicare but the situation was as follows: my grandfather-in-law was in need of a living facility, not necessarily a nursing home, but similar, and of course prescriptions. As my mother had to address the financial portion of it, we found he would not be eligible for assistance if he had any additional assets. Thus, he would have to be broke, with nothing to leave to his family. I was not looking for any inheritance, but he did have grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

Could you be more specific about your retirement income/benefits? Maybe we could get some ideas for the next round of negotiations.
Thanks for the well wishes.
Kim

10-26-2006, 10:26 PM
Could you be more specific about your retirement income/benefits? Maybe we could get some ideas for the next round of negotiations.
Thanks for the well wishes.
Kim

I wish I could be more specific on the Medicare/Medicaid rules, but the fact is that the government publication is itself somewhat non-specific. Every place there is a real issue being discussed they end up telling you to telephone them with your inquiry.

You can review the handbook at www.medicare.gov (http://www.medicare.gov). You can probably request a copy there. The new book is called Medicare & You 2007.

One thing you will see is that there is virtually no coverage for "assisted living" that does not require "skilled nursing care." That's why it is becoming more attractive to purchase a Long Term Disability insurance policy (beyond the LTD coverage offered by your agency) while you are still relatively young and the premiums are lower.

My particular situation won't provide much help, because I had two careers, one federal and one local. You will find that retired feds, either military or non-military, generally have better and cheaper health care premiums than you can get in retirement. When I went with a local agency as a LEO I kept all of my federal health care coverage.

However, I DID spend some time working with our people (not TPD) who had health issues and are experiencing high health insurance premium costs in retirement. I talked to one civilian who told me that one-third of her monthly retirement benefit went to her health insurance premium. I just had breakfast with a retired LEO who pays over $800 a month for his premium.

I pay under $300 a month for "self and family" coverage, which is what an active duty employee (civilian or LEO) pays in my fed former agency.

I feel that keeping your health insurance premiums under control in retirement should be one of your most urgent negotiation issues. You should be able to either keep the same premium you had when active or even get it reduced. After all, you will be on a "fixed" income.

Everyone would like to have more cash in his pocket, but there IS a life after retirement and the wise person plans ahead. Work on improving your retirement benefits so it doesn't take so much money out of your pocket when retired that you can't do the things you had hoped to do when retired.

Best of luck.

10-30-2006, 09:34 PM
Chip, as you know HCSO is just starting their contract talks. Would it be OK to cut and paste your 1st post on the HCSO site for all to see? This is a very important issue, but some of our reps are blowing the insurance issue off......that is until they saw what the County did to our currnet health care co-pay plan on Oct 01.

11-29-2006, 03:03 PM
I dont think the city is going to discuss insurance because it could turn into a big snow ball. They know if they give it to us at TPD the'll have to give it to TFR and then to the rest of the city employees. That will cost the tax payers way too much and their not going to commit to something that will snow ball. However another way to approach this is to have the city guarantee a 13th check on the years when the pension doesnt make over 10% to pay a 13th check. That way it will cost the city a lot less and they will only be commitiing to paying a certain amount once every 3 years. I think they would be more apt to go for this then commiting to something that will certainly snow ball into a huge amount of cost to the city.

11-30-2006, 04:15 PM
The 13th check idea sounds good and something the city would probably consider since they wouldnt have to pay for it every year. And since its a great benefit to us and the fact that it wouldnt cost us anything. Our union should definitly persue this idea.