Bend over and grab your ankles

[Picasso]

Has anyone noticed the lastest memo out of City Hall....

In a memorandum dated Sept 22nd 2006
From: Your friend and mine ~ Gary Cornwell. HR
Ref: Pension Benefit Calculation

Retroactive to Sept 27th,2004.......

The inclusion of 59 hrs of overtime pay that we bargained for in our last Contract....which wil be added into the calculation of pension benefits.....

Mayor Baker & Davis have decided that You have not been putting 7% of your overtime pay into said pension fund.
Hereby the City announces it expects to recuperate that money.....
You have rec'd over the past two years,

In November you'll get a PERSONALIZED - oh that makes me feel sooo much better - memo stating :
1) Your overtime pay for 2005 & 2006
2) The amount due to your pension fund over that time period ie: 7% of what you made....
3) The amount each pay check the City is going to take away from you
and
4) The number of pay periods they will deplete your pocket......

NOW COUGH .....


What percent of a raise have we rec'd over the last three years?
Subtract the amount health insurance has been pased onto us and now this......

Time for a recruitment poster......

The guys that leave early are not being given their money from the fund either now they want more to be put in?

Is someone making sure that this fund is being skimmed by some of the criminals at the top? (and I know that is a a wide net)

Who is responsible for this fiasco and are they going to be disciplined for such a costly mistake?

Just when you think it cant get any worse....

Who is responsible for this fiasco and are they going to be disciplined for such a costly mistake?

Oh... haven't you heard?

We blame PAYROLL when our paycheck is screwed up and PAYROLL in turn blames ORACLE.

When we 'agree' and say "something needs to be done about this" they say "don't blame ORACLE. YOU are responsible for keeping track of your own paycheck!"

When an employer tells you that YOU are responsible for keeping track of your pay and that it's not the responsibility of either ORACLE or PAYROLL... then you must be working for "THE CITY OF ST. PETE"

~A city that's a living monument to defective programs and ideas that others long ago discarded!
~A city that's operating "on the cheap!"




FD Bro'

[Lawman]

Well, if WE are responsible for keeping track of our pay, then the thing to do is constantly complain that we were underpaid and make them prove that the check is right....sooner or later they will get tired of playing the game and start policing themselves better.

I have more questions than answers. We are paying 7% of our overtime and shift differential toward our retirement, yet only our last three years count towards our retirement pay.

My point is that for 22 years we are paying in only to receive the last three years toward our retirement pay? If we are on days and receive no overtime in the last three we get nothing back for the 23 years we pay in? Am I missing something here or is the city just ripping us off?

Also who is calculating what the retirees got paid or did they get ripped off on the overtime and differential pay too? Last question why is it we at the bottom are the only ones held accountable?

No, you are not missing anything. For years we have had deals negotiated by folks with good intentions but little in the way of real world deal making. You are correct, you will pay 7% on those areas for the rest of your career, only to stand a chance of recouping in the last three.

Work in a position without shift diff. in your last three, you get nothing. Get little or no overtime the last three, you get nothing. Get promoted and not work as an Acting, you get nothing. Of course the City jumped at us taking this deal, the pension is underfunded and a burden to them, anything that opens up new revenue streams without costing them anything is good. The expected payout on these areas is minimal, the pay in is great.

Anyone who woks the numbers could see that this was largely a losing propisition for us......

"Truthteller" do a little research and get the facts. The total affect on your pension as a benefit will be great. You can add 300 hrs of OT at retirement, you call that no benefit. You are getting a 100% benefit fot a 7% input. The only way you will not benefit is if your a lazy slug and you cannot obtain the 300 hrs which is less then 10 hrs a week. Get off your fat ass and reap the nice benefit and stop complaining.

The inclusion of 59 annual hours of overtime pay in the calculation of your pension benefit was approved retroactive to Sept 27th, 2004.

You aren't adding 300 hrs of OT at retirement !!

You CAN get paid out 300 hrs of sick time... out of the over 2400 hrs you might have banked (plus or minus depending if you used sicktime during your employment). NOTE the city keeps the rest!
and....if you max out your vacation time at 416 hrs you can get a pay out for that.

10 hrs of OT a week ~ !!!! hahahahaha

I can't stand 8 hrs ~ 5 days a week in this place !!

Rascal you would truly be management material if you would only realize how much $h!t you would get for allowing your people to get 10 hrs of OT a week !! I think I just pi$$ed in my shorts !!

Toothfairy...10 hrs a week, are ****ing kidding me. People are getting 10 hrs in about 3 days....you must be one of those lazy asses that Rascal was referring to because OT is easy to accomplish and by the time most retire they and the city will reach the 300 hr requirement.

Where in the world do you get the idea that 300 hrs will be figured into the total retirement pension you receive upon leaving SPPD with tenure ???

Are you thinking that you got your foot into the door with 59 hrs ? and in the future you'll get 300 hrs??

oooops I $h!t myself !!!
When are you goin' ta learn:
What GoD gives ~ GoD taketh away.....

Ask that Day shift short-timer what ever happened to clothing allowances, Sick time bonus, or several different health companies to choose from.

Maybe he'll show you his BUS PASS that every employee got back way back then.


Wake UP !!
Let's say you have 15 years on ~ the next 10 years you'll give the city 7% of those 59 hrs you easily earned ~ Every Year ???? This is where the clarification needs to come out....


Because partner.... Your PENSION is only figureed as an average over the last three yoears of your service.......

So why are you contributing over the last ten !!!

Some one give me some duct tape to wrap my head before it explodes....

[Lawman]

I will gladly give the city 7% of my overtime if I get to collect it later in my pension payments. Yes, I know it is only calculated for your last three years, but the payments go on for the rest of your life....assuming of course that the city doesn't go bankrupt and it defaults on all the pensions.

Ah...my friend you have come to the heart of the matter...
#1 The rest of your life.....
Has anyone calculated , upon leaving SPPD after 25 yrs.
What the REST OF YOU LIFE looks like ?

#2 Assuming the city.....
Years ago they didn't put enough money into the pension system.
Seeing that they got government funds they had to boost it up.
Those were the years the City Manager told his cops even if he could give them a raise "He wouldn't do it"
I guess that wasn't the right way to word things.....
Now ~ Ooopps we made a mistake

Ask yourself has anything really changed
Are you AB SO $U6KiN" SURE this city of highrises going up~
all the while the real estate market dies .....ISn't turning Itself into Clearwater 15 years ago or ever Tampa 5 years ago with 50% unoccupied space?

Uriah...its obvious your not familiar with how your pension really works. Lawman is right on the money, no pun intended. Your pension fund is strong and making good money, don't believe it, go to a pension meeting and see for yourself.

I think I'm going to rely on my pension sooner then you dearest.
I'm thinking about the young studs/studettes walking our hallways.

22 years of 59hrs OT/7% taken out of your pay
With the last three years counting.....
52 wks x 40 hrs = 2080 hrs
59/2080 = 4.5%
4.5% of 75% is going to be what ???

compare that to the 22yrs of 7% you put in and the survival rate of pensioned officers..... Who's making out to the better !?!?!
.
What is your mindset going to be 22 yrs from now??????

My dear I think your herpes
is affecting your thinking... but that's Ok you're making bucks now.
Just wait...............

A little dill to your cat food will do wonders.....

[Lawman]

I could be wrong, as I am not a financial planner, but here is how I calculate the benefit, as if I were retiring today:

top pay = $27.75

overtime = $41.62 hr

41.62 x 59 = $2,455.58

$2,455.58 x .07 = $171.89

$2,455.58 x.75 = $1841.68

So for a scant $171.89 a year I will get an extra $1841.68 a year in pension benefits. Lets look at it from a rookies perspective.

$171.89 x 25 years = $4,297.25 (actually less because this is based on max pay and rookies start at the bottom)

$4,297.25 / $1841.68 = 2.33

You will break even so long as you live a little less than 2.5 years after you retire. Yes people like Delmasso and Rizzo will have been screwed...but personally, I intend to hang around and milk the system for a long time.

Unfortunately, I tried to engage in constructive discussion of the problems with the negotiation of these recently implemented provisions of our pension plan. The first respondent to my post challenged me to get off my "arse" and made a personal attack. Those without an argument resort to attacking the messenger.

On the other hand, lets look at the facts:

The new provisions of the contract call for deductions from the following areas of our covered pay:

Base pay
Duty related overtime
Shift differential
Education Incentive
Acting Pay

Now for analysis:

As stated earlier by a poster, those close to the end of their careers stand to reap some, and I emphasize some benefit, from the structure of this pension change. They have not paid significantly into the new provisions over the course of their career, if they are willing to work significant amounts of overtime in the last 3 years (23,24,25) of a regularly scheduled retirement they will then be able to add the current 59 hours to their accrued benefit. Taking a look around the station, in all honesty, how many old timers park themselves in the computer room and belly up to the overtime bar? Few if any, if your honest.

If you do not work at least the minimum covered overtime in your final three, you don't see a penny of that portion of your contribution. Yes, you will get 75% of your covered salary at that point, but thats it, zip, nada on payroll. For the 59 hours to count, they have to be accrued in the last three.

So, to reap this "enhanced benefit", I have to look forward to working at leats 59 hours of overtime each of those last three years. It is not unreasonable to surmise that within a decade the ceiling of hours will rise somewhere closer to the max of three hundred. What does that mean, more overtime if I want to see my contribution.

That being said, I work, I put people in jail, I look out for my brother and sister officer on the street, but I don't want to be here 59 hours of extra overtime at this point. I can safely predict I won't want 300 in my last three years. Most officers I dare say wouldn't either.

Now shift differential, to reap my contributions to that, I have to work evenings or mids in the last three to see my contributions. Where do you find most senior officers in the last three years? Days, CID, specialized units? At best, its a wash on that, but as I look at most people pulling the plug recently, I note they are coming off several years of days. Nothing in the last three, no benefit.

Acting pay, how many folks in the last three pull an acting gig, few and far between. Most rank and file may never act, could be a wash on that one too.

In sum, when do you stand the most to pull the massive overtime, work evenings and mids or get tapped as an actor? Early to mid career I think is a fair answer. Thus the demographic making the largest contributions stands to reap the least unless their willing to pull some brutal hours as "salty dogs" at the end of their careers.

Why do you think the City signed off on this provision? Its a no brainer, an acturarials dream. You give up little in terms of payout, but you increase the spectrum of available funds to draw in to the fund, which in turn reduces their burden of contribution.

Ultimately, the folks who negotiated this were good intentioned, many are oficers I care about and am proud to serve with, but in the end we got taken on the enhancement. A rational analysis of the facts bears this out. Many agencies with these type of contribution provisions have a "best three" years to determine covered salary as opposed to "last three". This eliminates the contribution gap of your aggressive years fueling the plan and your laid back years being what your pension is calculated off of.

Maybe its' something to think about when we go to the table next year?

[Zero]

7% of the education incentive?? That moey doesnt even come from the city, it comes form the state . If I understand this right, and I beleive I do, I am paying the city 7% of money that isnt coming from them. They are taxing money that has absolutley nothing to do with them. That just diesnt seem right. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Folks it's time to pull those PBA contract CDs you could have got out of your drawer or take the dead tree off the shelf. Then, take a look at the exact wording in the contract.

I'm honestly in the dark right now...I can't find mine
Which brings up an another point.....
It's very interesting that at the end of this three year contract... the CITY discovers it's MISTAKE.

Me thinks that the CITY is playing a game of word interpretation here....
Their understanding seems to be different then ours....plus Hiz Honor has had time to have Lawyers/CPAs look into every nook and cranny to find a way to save a buck so he can maintain his realm.

If indeed they are empowered to take 7% of 59 hrs of OT yearly over your lifetime with SPPD ~ you WILL put in more then you will ever get out of it.... Unless you live to be 120 years old and can suck every penny penny coming to you .....out of BAKER'S pocket .