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06-14-2006, 04:31 PM
Police Want To Stay In Schools

By STEPHEN THOMPSON The Tampa Tribune

Published: Jun 13, 2006


There's a turf war brewing at many of Pinellas County's middle and high schools, but it's not groups of students facing off against each another.

It's Pinellas County Sheriff Jim Coats, with Pinellas School Superintendent Clayton Wilcox, pitted against city police chiefs.

Wilcox is considering removing city police officers from schools and replacing them with Coats' sheriff's deputies. But the police chiefs don't want their officers to leave.

With the same law enforcement agency providing school resource officers on every campus, there would be uniformity in policy, especially with the use of electric stun guns on students, said Nancy Zambito, the school system's deputy superintendent.

Police chiefs don't buy Zambito's rationale. Largo Police Chief Lester Aradi called it ludicrous. And the chiefs do not think the deputies will do a better job than their officers.

The chiefs have made their objections known to Wilcox and Zambito, and some have vowed to fight the replacements.

"I told her it would be a junkyard dogfight," Tarpon Springs Police Chief Mark LeCouris said. "They will pry the SRO [school resource officer] stuff up here from our cold, dead hands."

Once St. Petersburg got wind of the proposal, Mayor Rick Baker and Deputy Mayor Goliath Davis III drove to Wilcox's office and told him that under no circumstances would they allow such a thing to happen.

Such a strong stance on what appears to be a simple bureaucratic switch might seem odd in Hillsborough County, where assigning school resource officers is strictly geographical.

City police officers work in the Tampa middle and high schools, a Temple Terrace officer works in the sole middle school there, and Hillsborough deputies have the rest.

But in Pinellas, which has 24 municipalities and more than a half-dozen police agencies, Coats publicly has advocated the consolidation of police agencies under his command, similar to Metro-Dade in South Florida.

Some cities, especially St. Petersburg, bristle at such an arrangement because they do not think the sheriff has as keen an appreciation of the nuances in their communities, especially when it comes to minorities, as they do.

Some chiefs wonder whether the school proposal is simply a way to provide Coats a toehold for an eventual takeover in the cities where he doesn't provide services.

"It's back on that track of Metro-Pinellas," Chief LeCouris said.

Coats denied the suggestion, saying the school system came to him, not the other way around.

"I'm just trying to accommodate them if that's their wish to go forward with this," Coats said.

The matter is expected to be brought before the school board at a workshop today.

Coats also wonders why some chiefs are so vociferous in their objections when the cities in the past have relinquished some school positions because of budget constraints.

In Clearwater, where Police Chief Sid Klein's staff has drawn up a two-page list as to why their officers should remain in Countryside and Clearwater high schools, sheriff's deputies already are in middle schools.

Pinellas Park police officers may be assigned to Pinellas Park High, but deputies work in the two middle schools in that city. And in Tarpon Springs, deputies are posted at Tarpon Springs High School.

"If these schools are so important to them, why don't they do all the schools in their communities?" Coats said.

The chiefs have reasons they want to stay. For one, they say they are better able to keep track of problem children as they go back and forth from school to their homes.

The departments also are invested heavily in their schools beyond the resource officer program, chiefs say.

Clearwater estimated the two high schools would lose access to four city police department programs if the sheriff's office took over - including a Hispanic outreach program to deal with the city's burgeoning Mexican population and a mental health therapist who counsels children exposed to violence.

Pinellas Park police teach at the criminal justice magnet program at Pinellas Park High School. "We consider them our kids," Police Chief Dorene Thomas said.

And dozens of St. Petersburg officers mentor struggling students in their spare time as part of an initiative by Mayor Baker, police spokesman Bill Proffitt said.

Still, Largo Chief Aradi noted the argument for city police officers has a weakness in that Pinellas' school choice program means students can end up at whatever school they want, regardless of where they live.

In Largo, for instance, nearly half of the high school students do not live in the city.

But as for the contention that the sheriff's office would bring uniform policies on such issues as Taser use, Aradi said, "I don't buy it." He said it would take him and his colleagues about an hour to get together and hammer out a uniform policy to be used in the schools.


City police departments in Pinellas County have officers in the following schools:
Clearwater Police Department: Countryside High and Clearwater High

Largo Police Department: Largo High and Largo Middle

Pinellas Park Police Department: Pinellas Park High

St. Petersburg Police Department: St. Petersburg High, Northeast High, Gibbs High, Lakewood High, Riviera Middle, Meadowlawn Middle, Southside Fundamental Middle, John Hopkins Middle, Thurgood Marshall Fundamental Middle; Bay Point Middle, Azalea Middle, Tyrone Middle

Tarpon Springs Police Department: Tarpon Springs Middle

06-14-2006, 05:38 PM
and of course, if the SO took over , as they did off duty jobs we once had, the first one they call when the sheet hits the fan is the jurisdiction they are working in, hell if they will handle any of the calls our SRO's do...when they are there anyway

would just go from mediocre to worse

06-14-2006, 06:43 PM
I hope we do take over the county. We would start by cleaning up south st. pete and then we would move to greenwood to take care of the business that you guys are not taking care of.

Its coming!! Its just a matter of time!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Lawman
06-14-2006, 10:22 PM
Not that I think the SO deputies are any better than our guys, but I agree that having all the schools worked by one agency makes sense. It does promote uniformity of policy, keeps us from having to have officers needlessly disciplined for handcuffing violent students, puts everything under county control, and allows for better communication between school SRO's in the county. Besides, we can use those SRO's on the street...

06-14-2006, 11:57 PM
Hey if the SO took over the schools in St. Pete they could actually handle some crime instead of checking residences for people that are on vacation to make sure they are secure. They would probably have to brush up on the battery, robbery, and sex batt statutues though..... :P

06-15-2006, 01:41 AM
Here's a concept... :idea: Maybe Campus Police should police the school campuses......hello!..what else do they do

06-15-2006, 01:43 AM
why don't the so take over all of the child abuse case in the cities also

06-15-2006, 03:25 PM
It would be great if they handled all child abuses. I actually had a deputy pick up a runaway in Seminole and transport her to the shelter on 5 Av N. Along the way the juvenile started telling the deputy that she ran away because she was being abused at home. The deputy told her to tell the counselor at the shelter and that the shelter would call SPPD to investigate the abuse that was occurring in Seminole. Talk about shirking your duties. I say let the SO take over the schools - they can do their own investigations and transports and we could use the people on the streets - I see no downside.

06-15-2006, 07:57 PM
Putting aside the name calling and accusations, consolidation of the SRO program makes perfect sense, be it under the SO or campus police. Uniformity of policy and procedure benefits everyone involved, there will be clear expectations of how situations that arise will be handled. There would also be clear issues of responsibility for what needs to be accomplished.

The additional benefit for SPPD would be the return of multiple sworn positions to the manpower pool to be allocated to USB and CID. Since Community Policing is viewed as a sacred cow that cant be cut, I for one would welcome additional sworn bodies coming our way from the schools.

This is not a knock on any of the folks working in either of those programs, there is good and bad in both. But more bodies to back me on a call is NEVER a bad thing.

My humble 2 cents worth

FLAME ON!

06-16-2006, 03:31 AM
The ONLY reason Go-Go Davis doesn't want PCSO taking over SRO functions in the city of St Pete is because he can't exercise his political clout in the county. Deputy mayor Davis manhandles Police Chief Harmon like the puppet he is, and easily manipulates the mayor because he is politically hungry for black votes and thinks the minority coalition will deliver votes.

Of course it makes sense for one agency - the SO or Pinellas Schools Police (formerly Campus Police) - to handle all of the schools for several factors. Dealing with school-based matters requires expertise not only in juvenile issues, but additional knowledge about school policies, transportation & bus stops, extracurricular activities, etc. It's way too fractured now and ultimately, that slows police response to and coordination of a serious event.

Finally, letting PCSO or Pin Co Schools PD take it all puts a dozen SRO's and 1 Sgt from SPPD alone back in circulation on the street. And it will be cost effective for taxpayers who will pay far less for service.

Hap
06-16-2006, 02:51 PM
Get a clue. where do you think we gather a lot of our juvenile intelligence. We have a vested interest in our schools and they should remain with our pd. Rememeber when the sro are out at juvenile altercations, how they know each kid by name. We have a large group of schools in the city and most of them are St Pete kids. Its best we know our own.

No disrespect SO, but we can do a better job.

Ten6Niner
06-16-2006, 04:33 PM
Hey "Hap":

Your argument is quite valid, but not for what you're thinking. Your argument is the very reason we should go Metro Pinellas. Then, and only then will the intel, communications and other officer safety related issues be addressed.

06-16-2006, 06:52 PM
Hap your city couldnt police an elementary school without a national news scandal, so stfu.

Tarpon only has the middle school, been that way since 1989 when they gave up Tarpon High.

Pinellas Park, what a joke. Same with Clearwater. None of these cities have all the schools in their areas. They just want to fight for their power.

Pinellas-Metro sounds good to me.

06-16-2006, 09:43 PM
What does GO Davis have to do with this? Oh never mind...I get it. The only thing he knows...the race card.. Whats the matter Go, afraid that "your" children may be handled like they should. God this city makes me puke! Sooooo glad I don't live there.

06-16-2006, 10:11 PM
Like I said let us take over the county. Most of the SPPD officers would get hired and together we can clean-up South St. Pete and Go can eat sh1t.

This is not a knock on the St. Pete officers as i'm sure they are very good police officers if given the backing they would get at Metro-Pinellas.

PEACE and BE SAFE!!!!!

Picasso
06-17-2006, 01:01 AM
GoD plays the race card?
Come ON, you're kidding me aren't you?
I thought the UHURU's were the only ones that played that card!
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f375/picassooo1/race-cardFINAL.jpg

06-17-2006, 04:24 PM
Yo, I just had some fried chicken at Go's crib and he was axin when is are next rally. July 1 & 2.

06-18-2006, 03:55 AM
I guess Gulfport already turned tail years ago since they have PCSO in their high school. They must be getting ready to bend over and take it from Coats because they see the writing on the walls.

Metro-Pinellas sub station Gulfport sounds real nice or would that be the South District Station?

Oh well either one is fine.

06-18-2006, 11:10 AM
See what I'm sayin'? Read Sunday's article in the Metro section of the TIMES. The police chief doesn't even lobby for his own agency to have sufficient staffing! Harmon has been repeatedly quoted as saying SPPD has enough police officers to adequately patrol the city.

When confronted with stats from FDLE about SPPD being below the state average of officers to citizens, Harmon tucks his tail and says SPPD should not be compared to other Tampa Bay depts.

"I think we're providing a VERY GOOD SERVICE," Harmon said.

[I'm not making this up! It's too stupid to contrive.]

Harmon said he DOESN'T LIKE to compare St. Petersburg with other cities. He said the city had grown much younger and MORE DYNAMIC during his tenure....

Is THAT what you call Mid-town violence, thugs running the street? More dynamic?!

Harmon explained SPPD's low number of sworn numbers this way: "Our best comparison is to ourselves."

So SPPD should be compared to itself! What a moron....let me guess, he's a college graduate of statistics?

Hap
06-19-2006, 02:05 AM
Sorry posters, but if the SO gathers the intelligence, do you think they will be out there with us when we need it. Nope. The kids that go to school in the city schools, are mostly St Pete kids. If you were knowledgable about the school system, and the way police depts share intell, you would agree that the SRO should be left alone.

Fred
06-19-2006, 05:29 PM
Hap smart man. He know inside outs of poleese department. Many wocal cops know kids, kids pawents, and are part of neighbohood. Me no like deputies who give no kwap about kids and they pawents. Me know that PCSO has twuble keeping SRO in they schools. No stay long. No chance to be part of school. Me no like deputies. Keep St.Pete. They good guys.

Fred NotWong

06-20-2006, 04:48 PM
Do some research and look at the numbers!!!!!
THe Deputy SRO's don't handle quite the same situations as SRO's from the City of S/P. If the Deputies came into S/P, they would get an eye opeing experience.

The Deputies have a high turn over as it is in the schools and they have two deputies at the high schools and the majority of the schools in north county handle way less problems. When and if Sheriff Coats takes over , They should expect to deal with all the bus stop problems.

Are they going to call deputies when a bus is pulled over for a big brawl. Are deputies going to respond when there are numerous family members at the bus stop fighting on and off the bus before and after school. :shock:

When the big brawls start at the beginning of school and at
the end of the school day (at the S/P schools) and the deputies call for assistance, are S/P officers in that area going to respond? How far will the deputies have to come for backup to transport the 3/4 juv's who will be arrested and how long will the wait be. (maybe a substation in S/P)

The middle schools in north county don't handle anywhere the situations and problems S/P officers handle. Any body that has questions can pull up the stats from any middle or high school in S/P and compare and good luck!!!

Fred
06-20-2006, 08:27 PM
Guest is wise man, too.

Fred NotWong

CHUCKY CHEEEZE
06-20-2006, 08:38 PM
So what? You want to keep the schools? You want to be an SRO? You can have them. Otherwise, you can put the SRO's on the streets where you need them. I wouldn't care to have anything to do with it.
I prefer police work to dealing with illiterate parents and kids kicking each other.

Gladiator
06-21-2006, 12:15 AM
I have to agree Chucky and then some. I think we should take all the SRO's, Dare, Pal, Community Awareness, Exec to the Chief, Staff Inspections, Recruiting and every other useless support position and put them all back in patrol and cid. The CPO's can fill in the newly vacant positions when needed.

Hap
06-21-2006, 04:32 AM
A couple of narrow minded comments from both of you cheese and gladiator. Shame on both of you. Maybe your the reason we have moral problems within our ranks. Everyone hates specialty units until they go to one. Then its all roses. Stop crying, handle one call at a time and be safe.

Gladiator
06-21-2006, 03:23 PM
Wow, I got a response from you and didn't even bring up the CPO's. Let me be a little more narrow minded and give you my thoughts on that. Form one squad per district..a Sgt and eight officers would do, and let them handle all of the CPO problems in the district. Work on a couple of priority projects at a time and actually make an impact. The CPOs have gotten pushed into doing so much BS (at no fault of their own) that isn't even police related. It's a waste of time. Most of what they do is to keep a small number of people and political groups quiet and happy. Big bang for our buck there. You guessed it...the rest can go back to patrol.

The Chief is out of his mind. We don't have enough officers on the street and your wishes to be safe are welcomed, but someone is going to get hurt if staffing levels don't improve.

CHUCKY CHEEEZE
06-22-2006, 12:03 AM
A couple of narrow minded comments from both of you cheese and gladiator. Shame on both of you. Maybe your the reason we have moral problems within our ranks. Everyone hates specialty units until they go to one. Then its all roses. Stop crying, handle one call at a time and be safe.

I didn't say anything about hating the units. Neither did Gladiator. I believe we were talking about SRO slots. I just thought you guys on days would actually appreciate having a few extra cops on the streets. I know Harmon wouldn't though. Maybe they would be sent to the gym or Sweetbay. Do you even know what you want? It's a screwed up admin but at least agree on something amongst yourselves.

I don't miss being the only cop for 13+ miles on a Friday night. My backup is usually either 51 or just around the corner, although we seldom need them. I also don't miss copying backlogged calls for someone in the next zone while they're drinking a big gulp in the weight room or doing a 1 hour investigation into a 10-39 (56' in wit' Baby's Momma at the park, you know who I mean).

I'm sorry you're going to miss your school assignment but if it were YOU requesting 10-24, maybe one of those ex-SRO's could help you out.

Now that "HAP" brought up CPO's, yeah, I don't see it either. You neuter 'em and shove those folks in front of the public and tell them "these guys are gonna make your problems go away! Quit calling Hiz Honor's office, call these CPOs..." I don't care either way, but I would think that those of you still working Baker's kingdom would like some uniforms out on the street with you. It seems "HAP" doesn't. He prefers telling kids to quit spitting in the hallway....

Stay safe whoever you are, and enjoy the free chocolate milk from the lunchlady.

Fred
06-24-2006, 07:33 PM
Hap is very wise man.

Chucky and Gladiator... not so much

"Donkey lips don't fit onto a horse's mouth."

Fred NotWong

06-24-2006, 07:43 PM
Hap is retired...Chucky Cheese and Gladiator are living in reality.

Fred
06-26-2006, 10:12 PM
"Not until just before dawn do people sleep best, not until people get old do they become wise."

Fred NotWong

Hap
06-27-2006, 10:32 PM
Ok, I've been gone a month and don't know what i'm talking about? Stop it.

By the way, love ya like a brother.

06-29-2006, 01:03 AM
Hap,

What is it with this topic and you? I don't really remember you doing much of anything....let alone utilizing youth intelligence.

Hap
06-29-2006, 02:07 AM
Wow, really means a lot coming from someone who won't post his name. Your not afraid of an old guy are you? I don't have any regrets with my career but then you know me so well. Good luck on the next round of supervisors you get. Maybe you will get a good one, and then maybe you will get the supervisor you so well deserve mr. guest poster.

07-01-2006, 03:35 PM
Oh there will be some winners. How about Dede for major and Dente for Lt? Who would sweep the halls on their knees faster?
Just the way I likes it, sez Gordie.

DIG DOG
07-01-2006, 07:02 PM
Oh there will be some winners. How about Dede for major and Dente for Lt? Who would sweep the halls on their knees faster?
Just the way I likes it, sez Gordie.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

10-04-2006, 10:22 PM
To the idiot that made the comment of us not trying to work South St.Pete or for the CLearwater guys about Greenwood. Why dont you check yourself in that pretty little white shirt your wearing. We take care of buisness in South St.Pete jerkoff. ITs not our fault thast we are hindered by a corrupt administration and spineless police chief. I normally dont have a problem with you PCSO guys. Its not our fault your agency "lets you take care of buisness."

But every once in a while some idiot like yourslef comes along and says somethin stupid. Ive seen some of you boys in action down here and I cant really say Im impressed. What takes 4 cops to handle a loud angry crowd, it takes two squads of deputies to handle. Yeah Ive seen..that nervous scared look... Before you go runnin your mouth about city cops again, don't.

10-30-2006, 01:02 AM
I know my team held their own southside against all odds but I can hardly say four of us took on an angry crowd with much success. I remember one time they were throwing rocks at us and a certain watch commander who won't be named had us all go X8 asap. No need for us to be allowed to handle things. Usually the crowd just got bored and went away after the sarge 'allowed' us to make an arrest or two.

If I'm not mistaken though, not meaning to take up for the SO guys, the SPPD didn't exactly gain control during the civil disturbances of the 90's all by themselves. I love that video they show at MFF training, 10 cops in shorts hiding behind one shield then the SO shows up in professioal looking gear to take care of business. Hey how do you get a copy of that tape?