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View Full Version : RETIREES NOT REHIREES



05-24-2006, 09:07 PM
I would like to address an issue that I have heard being discussed amongst employees of the SSO. Let me start by saying that I do not frequently post on this site. I feel that some legitimate issues do come up but many posts are simply gossip and hurtful to our coworkers. I do feel the subject I am about to address needs to have some attention paid to it before it causes more problems, not just at the SSO but for the entire pension system. For clarification purposes, I am in the twilight of my career. I doubt I will get another promotion. I refuse to do my time and then come back just because there is a legal loophole that would let me.

HIGH RISK RETIREES SHOULD NOT BECOME REHIREES!

We have had a few retirees return to work after retirement and several more state their intentions to do the same. This will continue to be a trend unless it is stopped by legislation or departmental policy. The legislation that was at the state level died in committee and did not come to a vote on the floor. Let’s forget the politics of why it died and look at the problem. Let us not even address the topic of “is the rehire capable of doing the job.” That is the kind of hurtful talk I want to avoid. It makes it personal and that should not be a public debate.

1) Upward mobility will be limited. As 25, 30 or 35 year veterans who have reached the height of their careers retire and return to the same position, same rank and same pay; it will stymie the rest of the employees from advancement. Remember, it takes six years to re-vest in the pension fund for a rehired retiree. A 30 year veteran will turn into a 36 year veteran at a minimum and occupy that position and lock it up for many years from the time they were first promoted to that rank. It prevents others from advancing in a career that normally would run a course in 25 years. Face it, most of us will never get promoted past the rank of sergeant when we are at 25 plus years of service when the 35 – 40 year lieutenant has locked it up since 15 or 20 years in his career.

2) Fresh ideas will be locked out as the senior staff occupies the decision making positions for 5 to 10 years past the normal retirement age. Stagnation in the upper ranks will turn a progressive agency into a very stagnant regressive agency. This will cause mid-management to retire in a mid-level position and a large experience gap will exist between first line and upper level management when upper management finally retires the second time.

3) There is a reason the State Legislature gave us a High Risk 25 year pension at 3% - we tend to die earlier than the regular risk pension persons. Much research, hard work and lobbying went into getting the high risk pension to where it is today. We fought to get the benefits we have and convinced the state legislature that we not only deserved but needed the high risk pension. What do you think the legislature will do when they see high risk pensioners putting in 30 plus years, retiring and getting rehired for another 6 years to collect a second state high risk pension? My thought is that they will come to the conclusion that a high risk pension is not such a necessary thing. We will lose the high risk pension if the state legislature thinks we are abusing it.

4) Medical abuse issues. Let’s face it, as we get older we have a greater potential for medical problems. We get hurt easier and don’t heal as fast or as well. So take a 30 year retiree – rehiree as an example. Lets say this person is at the rank of captain (as we have one who is getting ready to retire – rehire) making about $95,000 per year. He retires with a $70,000 per year pension benefit. He comes back 30 days later at the age of 55 or 60. Two years into his rehire he develops a heart condition (covered by the heart-lung bill) and is told he must retire. Hmmmm... 64% disability pension on what is now a $105,000 per year salary and he is now collecting two state pensions for a total of about $133,000 per year, tax free. Do you think maybe the state legislature might have a problem with this and decide perhaps we don’t need a high risk pension?

Now don’t get me wrong. I don’t think we have many who would intentionally do this. But we do have greater medical problems as we age. This is a real possibility when we rehire.

Finally – I ask the staff members who read this to give some real consideration to what I have said. I am not a genius and perhaps I am even been mistaken about how the pension system works with regards to high risk 2nd pensions and disabilities. It has not happened yet and therefore we don’t know for sure how it will work. The arguments are real, the situations are real, and the negative morale impact is real. Please talk with the Sheriff and convince him this retiree – rehiring policy is flawed.

05-24-2006, 11:42 PM
Wow, that was a very well written -- and sad -- post. :cry: Unfortunately, it is very accurate. The number crunching that you did is phenominal. :cry:

We've been lobbying to get a 20-and-out system, but under the scenario that you just presented, we might lose everything as 30 and 35 year veterans are re-hired to start a second career at their same rank and paygrade.

Yes, it's a legal loophole, but it's not a moral one. :?

05-25-2006, 10:53 PM
Lt BB says he's returning... if he does we can only hope that they keep him inside !

05-25-2006, 11:19 PM
Lt BB says he's returning... if he does we can only hope that they keep him inside !Ugh!!! That old guy should just RETIRE!!! Great grandpa, why don't you go enjoy life??? Can you get an erection without a badge??? :roll:

05-26-2006, 12:57 PM
Lets stick to the subject and not turn this thread into personal attacks on indivuals. From the lack of response I have to assume nobody else sees the problem with rehiring the retirees. So it must be a dead issue.

05-26-2006, 01:11 PM
Lets stick to the subject and not turn this thread into personal attacks on indivuals. From the lack of response I have to assume nobody else sees the problem with rehiring the retirees. So it must be a dead issue.Well, it's perfectly legal, so therefore nobody can do anything about it. If the citizens really understood the number crunching that is going on, then they would be up-in-arms, but they don't really understand it, so no one is complaining.

Hiring back retirees at their same rank and rate-of-pay is a gross mismanagement of money. It's cheaper to keep them employed "as is" instead of letting them retire & then hiring them back.

This is a perfect example of why people don't like politicians -- because this kind of stuff goes on all the time -- everywhere.

If you can't beat'em, then join'em. I give up. I've tried to be a watchdog, but nobody cares. In the end, the taxpayer is hurt. Well, let the taxpayer continue hurting because you can't stop what's going on. :shock:

Most taxpayers are too busy with the daily grind of living to really understand the "sham" that is going on by re-hiring retirees (instead of keeping them employed "as is").

I give up!!!! It is what it is!!!! It is "the system"!!!! :cry:

05-26-2006, 03:05 PM
They should also make the civilians retire once their 5 years in the drop program are up......let the remaining workers move onto a better shift...better job ect.....

05-26-2006, 11:25 PM
i agree it only hurts depts, people just retire :roll:

05-27-2006, 02:41 AM
Good thing the aging Boomers outnumber young bucks like you. For sound reasons, young men are considered a threat to national security, buckaroo. Wherever there are lots of young adults (a population “youth bulge”), there’s a high risk for armed civil disturbances.

“Young men think old men are fools, but old men know young men are fools.”
-Geo. Chapman, 1557-1634

05-27-2006, 11:37 AM
I really believe after 25 years the agency should put a program in place to accomodate older officers. These officers as good as they have been do not have the ability to hold the jobs on the road. After 50 years of age running after burglars and chasing perps is one tough road. Smart retirement and investments can resolve many of these issues. If these officers return to duty they should be spending time with the young officers, training and mentoring them for future top rank positions. I know for many of the close to retirement folks it is tough to say goodbye but you must. This is a slippery slope of losing some of the younger officers if there is no ability to advance. We ask you to mentor and then retire! It is time to step back and let others take the ball.

05-28-2006, 12:13 PM
Good thing the aging Boomers outnumber young bucks like you. For sound reasons, young men are considered a threat to national security, buckaroo. Wherever there are lots of young adults (a population “youth bulge”), there’s a high risk for armed civil disturbances.

“Young men think old men are fools, but old men know young men are fools.”
-Geo. Chapman, 1557-1634

I am a boomer and in the "twilight of my career" as I put it. I know I can no longer do the same things I did when I was 21. For you to say that our younger men (officers?) in the form of civil distrubances, are a threat to national security is absurd. I know I did not say that older men are fools, that was your quote. However, after reading your post you appear to be the poster child (senior) for such a belief, even in the eyes of this old dinosaur. Perhaps retirement should be in your short range goals.

05-28-2006, 12:18 PM
The FOP & PBA have been trying to pass a "20 & out" bill, due to the stresses that are associated with being in LE. If old timers are getting re-hired after 25, 30 and 35 years on active-duty, then what does that say about the necessity to pass a "20 & out" bill??? :roll:

06-09-2006, 12:30 PM
It means it will never pass. The PBA was unable to get the legislation through to stop the rehiring because the FSA is so strong it just killed it. Pu that together with the near impossible "on the job disability" laws that include a pittance of a pension and you are better off dead if you have a job related medical problem.

06-14-2006, 10:19 AM
Yes, it's a legal loophole, but it's not a moral one. :?



NOT MORAL?

Because some puke comes up behind and wants my job? I waited, you do the same for as long as it takes. What a jerk.

I earned it. If I come back and fill the position competently who are you to even have a f%^&* opinion?

What is immoral is pueling morons like you crying because the brass isn't dying off fast enough to suit you. Zip it.

06-14-2006, 11:19 AM
Yes, it's a legal loophole, but it's not a moral one. :?NOT MORAL?

Because some puke comes up behind and wants my job? I waited, you do the same for as long as it takes. What a jerk.

I earned it. If I come back and fill the position competently who are you to even have a f%^&* opinion?

What is immoral is pueling morons like you crying because the brass isn't dying off fast enough to suit you. Zip it.You've completely missed the point. If you want to stay for 35 or 40 years, then fine. Stay under your current retirement system. But don't intentionally leave, with a secret plan to return in 30 days, just so you can "double dip" in the Florida Retirement System (http://www.myfrs.com/content/index.html). That's an abuse of taxpayers monies. :twisted:

If you're as competent as you say you are, then stay under your present retirement system. That way, we can use your expertise and the taxpaying citizens won't fund your "double dipping" of the FRS. ;)

How many private companies do you know that allow employees to: Retire with the intent to come back in 30 days[/*:m:2qtllsfa]
Without losing seniority[/*:m:2qtllsfa]
Without losing pay (same executive level pay)[/*:m:2qtllsfa]
Just so they can start collecting:
a) On their retirement
b) While starting a new retirement at the executive level?[/*:m:2qtllsfa]I've got no problem with you staying for as long as you want. That's dandy. :)

I do have a problem with milking the FRS by leaving (with the intent on coming back) just so you can scam the taxpayers while filling up your wallet.

Yep, it's definately a legal loophole, but it isn't a moral loophole because it's an abuse of public trust because it's the taxpayers who are padding your wallet. Money doesn't grow on trees. You've obviously been a government employee for too long. :roll:

If you love the job, then stay without double dipping.

06-14-2006, 08:26 PM
Wow, that was a very well written -- and sad -- post. :cry: Unfortunately, it is very accurate. The number crunching that you did is phenominal. :cry:

We've been lobbying to get a 20-and-out system, but under the scenario that you just presented, we might lose everything as 30 and 35 year veterans are re-hired to start a second career at their same rank and paygrade.

Yes, it's a legal loophole, but it's not a moral one. :?

06-18-2006, 02:54 AM
Ive got 16 in and I remember them talking about that when I was in the academy. I wish I would be almost gone. Not that I dont love the job but it would be a great thing then I could do a city pension somewhere. Oh well. As far as rehire retirees. Hey maybe I can do it,,Dont hatte the player hate the game. I jus thtink when I hit 25-30. I am done with this county,agency and etc. If I did do something even still in LE I dont know If I could do it here again. Not too say becasue Its a great agency but I dont know I guess Ill worry about that later.

06-18-2006, 10:13 AM
Ive got 16 in and I remember them talking about that when I was in the academy. I wish I would be almost gone. Not that I dont love the job but it would be a great thing then I could do a city pension somewhere. Oh well. As far as rehire retirees. Hey maybe I can do it,,Dont hatte the player hate the game. I jus thtink when I hit 25-30. I am done with this county,agency and etc. If I did do something even still in LE I dont know If I could do it here again. Not too say becasue Its a great agency but I dont know I guess Ill worry about that later.IMO most people don't make plans for when they hit the 25th or 30th year -- and then they are helpless and unemployable if they retire. I can't stress enough that you (all of you) have to begin making plans NOW for whatever it is that you want to do when you retire. You can't just sit your your arse for 25 or 30 years without having a plan in your mind -- and without working towards it. I know that some of our best laid plans are frequently smashed -- but that doesn't mean that you should not make plans -- and then start working towards them.

When you retire, if you want to:
- get another job, then start training for it now
- learn how to invest, then start training for it now
- sell real estate, then start training for it now
- sit on your arse, then start investing for it now
- etc etc etc

For those of you who aren't making plans -- and aren't working towards them -- you'd better get a plan in your mind NOW and start working towards it.

I just can't believe how many people don't have a plan. Wow!!!!! :shock:

Whatever you're doing now is going to influence what you will (or won't) be doing when you leave this agency!!! :?