Stunning students

It seems you guys have all gotten tasers now. What justifies use of a taser if the perp is already down on the ground?

The question posed by the initial author is too vague in our line of work. There is never any sort of accurate, clear-cut answer within a profession full of uncertainties, but I'll try...

It depends on specifically how and why the perp is on the ground, and just what level of resistance he's offering.

In an ideal world (if crime could occur in such a world), the perp who is on the ground will do exactly as he is told, not resist in any sort of active or passive manner, and would therefore never need tasing. However, it is our real world experience that has shown us that "grounded" perps still fight, try to run, carry weapons, stab, shoot, and lethally wound officers.

From my time working at institutions of higher learning, I have come to understand that every student, regardless of chosen major, is a law student. They all pretend to know that what we are doing is illegal, unjustified, or some form of civil rights violation. So my professional experience has also shown me that 99% of them are absolutely clueless as to what is legal, justifiable, and in no way a civil rights violation.

Allow me to add that the Criminal Justice majors have as much knowledge of police work as Political Science majors.The same applies to your professors, at least those who have never worn the badge. Law students and lawyers alike are often wrong, and the court cases prove it; while not all arrests lead to conviction, that does not mean the arrest was bad or otherwise unjustified.

But I guess this is all part of the police officer's plight. We work in a thankless, misunderstood and often criticized profession.

We dont have the tasers so "it appeared" incorrectly to you .

[MEIN KAMPF]

Craftiness has many representations, Taser is just one example. Notice the degree of creativity in selecting the title for the Topic:

1-) Reduces his/her message in two simple words, which provokes memorization and repetition.

2-) Sacrifice the article and prepositions, and rather has a verb and a noun, which makes it a more direct statement.

3-) The verb is in the present continue form, which suggest that is an ongoing action which is taking place, this stir up the curiosity.

4-) Inverts the order, The direct object (the noun "students" ) is at the end, while the predicate "stunning" is at the beginning. This confuse the reader, because although the subject of the statement is the "Students" never the less, the real emphasis intended is in the action "Stunning".

5-) Is posed in negative form, he or she could have said "Stunning Criminals" but since the intention is to create an uproar, is necessary to posit it in a negative way.

As we can see, Taser should be writing a propaganda manual. it probes to be very skillful, but in deceiving and lying.

On the other hand:

Zap has summarized in his / her reply volumes of wisdom in all directions! His short Essay deserves to be published!

Mein Kampf,

Thank you for your comment!

Hey Zap and Mein Kampf,

I apologize for the vagueness. Indeed I wanted to stir up a conversation on the topic to feel better prepared bringing up the video I mention later.

Zap, thank you for the answer. That makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm sorry that your work seems thankless. Please let me thank you for the work and risk you all go through, especially in South Florida, and I cannot judge you based on unfortunately too much unprofessional behavior that I've seen from other cops. You should understand that America is rooted in the ability to criticize the authority its people entrust in our officers of the law. If you believe this should not be the case, I think you should be an officer in another country or not an officer at all.

Anyways, here's what I wanted to refer to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_WseDybtWA Let me know how incorrect I am that tasers are being used here. It's a little difficult for me to believe (please prove me wrong!) that a taser needed to be used when there are so many officers surrounding the game attendee.

Also, keep in mind this was a question, not an accusation. In fact, you answered it quite clearly.

Mein Kampf, you're hilarious overanalysis and accusation of me trying to deceive and lie makes me believe you should be the one writing propaganda novels, especially considering your board nickname is the title of one! At least we can agree on Zap's insightful reply :)

No worries. I did not take it offensively, and while I don't know him, I don't believe Mein Kampf did, either. Unfortunately, we have been barraged over the years with similar questions, but very facetiously. I fully understand, support, and defend your right to question us, but it does seem to get rather old at times, especially when you consider some of the asinine questions we get. You could not imagine some of the ignorant questions posed by people; sometimes they just defy logic!

Of course, this being a written forum, it is quite difficult to truly capture the mood of one's comments/questions, as we have limited ways to properly inflect. With that in mind, allow me to apologize for the both of us if we came across negatively.

I watched the video, which is not quite appropriately titled. If you look closely, there are two sets of patches on the uniforms. The uniforms are both blue, which is all over South Florida, but besides the FIU officers present (I saw two), there are a series of Sweetwater PD officers, who can be identified via the round patches.

The down side is that the video does not capture the entire event, so I'm at a loss as to the why of the taser. Also, the gaggle of officers present blocks full view, so I also can't see the purpose for continuing the deployment of same.

As far as your other question is concerned, I can say that the taser is preferred to being sacked by a group of about 10 officers, all weighing approximately an extra 30 lbs. each. In addition, taking control of a subject becomes increasingly difficult when a dog pile is in full effect. Sure, the perp is held down, and quite probably gasping for air, but the officers trying to handcuff him are fighting the perp and every other officer. If you've never had to do such a thing, the best analogy I can think of is imagine being face-down on the ground, arms at your side, with 10 people piled on top of you, and not getting up...now try to put a belt around your pants and buckle it.

Now, given the same scenario, imagine the 10 people participating in the dog pile are trying to stop you from accomplishing your task. The eventuality is that you will likely suffer some injuries due to the active resistance from both you and them. Further, they will also probably suffer some injuries of their own, care of each other.

With the taser, one is in control of the device, and in this scenario, two officers are trying to subdue the perp, who I can only imagine is still resisting. Having been tasered before, I can say it hurts like hell, and the idea is for you to get shocked once (a 5 second blast), and you should pretty much stop fighting and comply when the shock is over. Some people just don't "get it", and keep fighting, which just prolongs the inevitable secondary, tertiary, or even more blasts. During the shock phase, the body locks up, and suddenly releases when the 5 seconds are up. It is during that rigid time that the officers will grasp on, so they can try to take full control when the body releases. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I think it's Meteorology that has been coined as the most inexact science, but in my experience, policing takes the proverbial cake.

I hope this helps. :cop:

It does, thanks!

[MEIN KAMPF]

Dear Tasers:

What you refer as "over analysis" , I simply call it "A distinctive tenet of Mein Kampf". On a marginal note, I don't write Propaganda, I just recognize it. Also "Mein Kampf" is not a novel, is a mixture of a Autobiography sprinkle with political thesis and world views in regard to Germany. I haven’t met anyone who classifies Mein Kampf as a “Novel” yet.

Now, lest focus in what is really important in here:

"It seems you guys have all gotten tasers now."

Your first initial statement still being with not substance in front of us. Although in a effort to provide some flesh and muscles to this skeleton you served us with a video, lest call it a "visual aid". Which still leave the skeleton in bared bones.

The reality is that FIUPD dont has Tasers at this moment. As Zap already reiterated, the game that appears in the video was worked within the context of a Two PD’s. Officers from Sweetwater PD who does carried tasers were present and as it is obvious in the video, an officer from SWPD deployed the Life Saver Devise, (Tasser).

Therefore the statement: "It seems you guys have all gotten tasers now." Still being false.

Regarding your question: "What justifies use of a taser if the perp is already down on the ground?" I am persuaded that Zap did a great job in sorting it out. I recommend you to give a look at his first Essay that he posted which in my view, hasn’t lost its exquisite literary and logical flavor.

I agree with us having the right to question / scrutinize / criticize and even revised “The Authorities”. At the end of the day, this attitude is precisely the bedrock of the American civil society.

Looking at this issue from a different perspective now, let me share why I dislike the phrase. "Stunning Students" and why I think is counterproductive to the University’s interests. “Stunning Students” is a very powerful, harmful and lethal phrase.

FIU PD is a very unique Law Enforcement Agency. Unlike most Law Enforcement Agencies in the nation, we Exist in a highly political and academic environment. The individuals from whom FIUPD depend in order to provide budget, resources and supportive policies comes from the Ivory Tower of the Academia. Needless to say that They don’t have any concept of Law Enforcement.

Since they are Politicians by nature, they tend to exert a great influence in our Department. A fair analogy is like having Musicians directing a Real World Military Operation, it just doesn’t follows.

The Word “Student” in this environment functions as the all almighty magic word that either makes things happens or not to happens at all. Is the axle in which everything in here spins. As a consequence Is the most misused and manipulated word in this place. U used that word in ways that doesn’t help The University.

This is not about attacking students, arresting students, harassing students etc… this is about Safety for the Community.

The Ivory Tower of the Academia doesn’t understand that in occasions, the greatest threat to the Students are the Students themselves. A simply look to the massacres perpetuated in Columbine and Virginia Tech corroborates that these were perpetrated by their own "students" members of their own institutions. Again, this crude reality doesn’t fit with the Idealism of the Academia alive and thriving in the administrators who refuse to give FIUPD the tools necessary to do our job.

Please, don’t take me wrong, I am not satanizing the "students". I am just addressing a delicate issue in a way to explain why such a phrase as "Stunning Students" is precisely so negative to the University.

We all agree that the University Community deserves a well trained, well staffed, well equipped police force that is able to protect the student body of any thread, whether internal or external.

The Academia will do better if they practice Plato's approach established in The Republic, of Letting those who knows-how, do their job! Law enforcement in the campus, should be in the hands of Police Officers, not in the hands of Politics, period.

I do grasp the great danger of using these words “ Stunning Students” – since like Nietzsche said: “Not around the invention of new noise but around the inventions of new values does the world revolved” - Thus Spoke Zarathustra (1883-1885).

I see the poison in these apparent naïve phrase “Stunning Student” – it makes them look like victims of their officers…. A philosophy that dominated this place for decades, resulting in an aggressive doctrine of a constant encroachment and stagnation to our FIUPD to the point of being rendered almost useless and unoperational.

That is why I Mein Kampf, reject these Spurious words that you have brought! lol lol lol

However, The new President and his entourage coupled with our new Chief, are turning decades of Decadence into a real "Worlds Ahead Police Force!"

Yours,

Mein Kampf