Collective Bargaining Ratification Vote

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I believe that this forum can be used to discuss and more importantly debate the issues the upcoming revote, since it is impractical for everyone to meet in person.

Remember, this proposed new contract is for three years (the Town absolutely wants a three year contract), we only gain two items, 1) Raising our personal day from an eight hour personal day to a twelve hour personal day (if you work a twelve hour day.) and 2) OIC's will be compensated if they work a six hour shift vs. a full shift.

I personally can not support the proposed contract for a few reasons.

1) We are already in the bottom 1/2 of salary ranges for Palm Beach County.
2) We have already lost our educational reimbursement program, because it was not in the contract.
3) The town refuses to include the extra personal day they have given us in the contract. (This means that whenever they want, they can take this benefit away.)

I know that there are other points of view out there and I truly hope others will articulate their views and ideas.

Can we get an accurate, current list of salaries including step plans for all other agencies in Palm Beach County? I feel with this information we would have a better stance going into any type of negotiations.

Okay.
Good idea about the posting and the ability to chat and off duty, and all that.
It probably wont work, because most of the people in the department are generally sheep when it comes to the Union or the contract or bargaining. I think that there are only about 10 that have any real interest.
But I do hope everyone gets involved and posts comments. Any interaction is a good interaction.
NOW, as far as the contract is going.
I must be confused. I keep hearing conflicting stories and rumors. If I understand this correct, you want ratification. If I understand another former rep, he does not want ratification. You are asking for an increase in salary and the other items you mentioned. No problem there.
The three year contract- I think we have openers that can handle that issue.
After hearing much going on and back and forth and talk and more talk. I have reached the following conclusion. I will vote in favor of ratifying the contract as it is presented at this time. My reasons are clear- to quote a well known politician "Its the economy stupid". The town does not have the resources at this time to give us what we need. Good faith bargaining will get us what we need in the future. By all indications, the economy will get far worse before it gets better. The town has yet to be seriously impacted by the economic situation, but it soon will be. The Chief has never been an enemy of the union and has always been clear, fair, and truthful on all issues. To attempt to force the town to provide monies not currently available is fruitless, and will adversely affect future bargaining arrangements.

Just crusing around different agencies' forums, we really don't have it that bad. Just read some of the crap that RBPD Officers have to put up with.

I agree with "Rhino" in that if we bargain in good faith now, maybe it would benefit all of us in the future.

Let's get some more feedback on here and more comments.

BTW, how did they get this personal smiley from LPD on here??? LOL :shock: = 642

Just crusing around different agencies' forums, we really don't have it that bad. Just read some of the crap that RBPD Officers have to put up with.

I agree with "Rhino" in that if we bargain in good faith now, maybe it would benefit all of us in the future.

Let's get some more feedback on here and more comments.

BTW, how did they get this personal smiley from LPD on here??? LOL :shock: = 642
This contract will set us in the path going backwards. "Good Faith" does not benefit our families in 2013 when our pay will be the same. Try trimming the "fat" at the PD. Ex. Officers assign to posts that make no sense, aka school assignments, etc etc.

[661]

Okay.
The three year contract- I think we have openers that can handle that issue.
After hearing much going on and back and forth and talk and more talk. I have reached the following conclusion. I will vote in favor of ratifying the contract as it is presented at this time. My reasons are clear- to quote a well known politician "Its the economy stupid". The town does not have the resources at this time to give us what we need. Good faith bargaining will get us what we need in the future. By all indications, the economy will get far worse before it gets better. The town has yet to be seriously impacted by the economic situation, but it soon will be. The Chief has never been an enemy of the union and has always been clear, fair, and truthful on all issues. To attempt to force the town to provide monies not currently available is fruitless, and will adversely affect future bargaining arrangements.

I think everyone agrees the Chief is an honorable person and we could do a lot worse. I am not naive, we are not getting a COLA for the next couple of years, not only because of the economy/housing market, but also the way the Town has mismanaged its finances.

Nearly every single non-monetary thing that we asked for was turned down. The only logical reason for this is the Town wants to be able to take them away if they feel they need to to save more money.

I wonder how long it is before you can no longer convert sick time to vacation time or cash. Just like there is no cap on how much the Town can raise your health insurance premiums. Remember benefits like those are not in your contract.

Again this is in no way about forcing the town to provide money they don't have. Its about protecting your benefits!

I hope that I am wrong but lets see if you change your mind when things get worse and I believe they will in the next year or two.

Actually, I think if you check the actual contract, you will find that the conversion of sick time into pay is a guaranteed contractual item and that is about as solid as you can get with that.

I confess I am at a loss to understand how you come to some of the "logical conclusions" you state. I can think of a number of reasons that the town might decide on one thing or the other. I dont think that making them out to be the "evil ones" will have any benefit and accusing them of mismanaging funds is really a little simplistic. I believe that at the time it was done, it made good fiscal sense. No one predicted the current financial situation with any accuracy, and it simply is not fair to make commissioners into scapegoats because of that.

You might look to your own motives here and objectively as possible consider if you really have the best interests of the union at heart. I have heard that your ultimate goal is to cause the town so much difficulty that they will be forced to contract with the PBSO. I hope I have been mislead in this. In fact, there are some who are considering holding a vote to determine if a "no confidence" motion could be ratified - meaning the bargaining unit members have no confidence in their Primary PBA Union representative.

Although a merger with the PBSO would mostly likely benefit most members, the actual choice of which agency to use for a law enforcement agency is a choice that is not within the purview of the union. The citizens of the town and their elected representatives have that responsibility exclusively. :evil:

This contract will set us in the path going backwards. "Good Faith" does not benefit our families in 2013 when our pay will be the same. Try trimming the "fat" at the PD. Ex. Officers assign to posts that make no sense, aka school assignments, etc etc.[/quote]

I like the 642 smiley face, rookie.

As far as re-assigning officers to posts that make no sense..........if the situation does get bad -REALLY bad- I think you will see that happen anyway. Many people have said over the years that there is no sense having three positions in Admin. And most of us veteran cops remember well when we had NO traffic unit and NO school resource officer. In fact, most of us remember when the Hypo unit was actually part of zone 2. I think anyone working in Hypo is secure because of the contract status. Any Investigator or Traffic Unit or Narcotics Unit would likely be reassigned to road duty as soon as anyone departs (fired/layed- off/left for another PD). Lots of room to manuever in this area, is what I mean to say.

I'm getting some feedback already on my last post about a "no confidence" vote.
Folks, I dont have any idea how to go about it, or even if it can be done. I suggest someone call the main PBA number and ask one of the employees/lawyers there.

This contract will set us in the path going backwards. "Good Faith" does not benefit our families in 2013 when our pay will be the same. Try trimming the "fat" at the PD. Ex. Officers assign to posts that make no sense, aka school assignments, etc etc.

I like the 642 smiley face, rookie.

As far as re-assigning officers to posts that make no sense..........if the situation does get bad -REALLY bad- I think you will see that happen anyway. Many people have said over the years that there is no sense having three positions in Admin. And most of us veteran cops remember well when we had NO traffic unit and NO school resource officer. In fact, most of us remember when the Hypo unit was actually part of zone 2. I think anyone working in Hypo is secure because of the contract status. Any Investigator or Traffic Unit or Narcotics Unit would likely be reassigned to road duty as soon as anyone departs (fired/layed- off/left for another PD). Lots of room to manuever in this area, is what I mean to say.

I'm getting some feedback already on my last post about a "no confidence" vote.
Folks, I dont have any idea how to go about it, or even if it can be done. I suggest someone call the main PBA number and ask one of the employees/lawyers there.[/quote]

Its not about re-assigning. Its placing officers on details with no benefit to the Town or department in anyway. NO ONE can justify the school officers position. Does nothing all day, and can't be found half of the time when needed. WASTE!! But whats being done about it? NOTHING! That's a big problem for people who see this. It's moral. And do you think this will ever change? Not that I can see. The Chief is the best thing that has happend to the PD, but this school assignment is seriously a waste and the MAJORITY of people see this and it is upsetting. I call it favoritism.

Okay, so the contract has passed.
Now we can talk about re-openers.
We can also use this forum to talk about other things. Dont be shy folks. You can sit at home on your computer and type away at all those little things that have been annoying you all these years. And you rookies can even add in your two cents (not that anyone will listen to you -HA).
Rumor mill? Kolbe has an application in to go to San Francisco?
Anything else?

[/quote]

Its not about re-assigning. Its placing officers on details with no benefit to the Town or department in anyway. NO ONE can justify the school officers position. Does nothing all day, and can't be found half of the time when needed. WASTE!! But whats being done about it? NOTHING! That's a big problem for people who see this. It's moral. And do you think this will ever change? Not that I can see. The Chief is the best thing that has happend to the PD, but this school assignment is seriously a waste and the MAJORITY of people see this and it is upsetting. I call it favoritism.[/quote]

While I agree about the positions set up for Officers is positive thing. I just think every year or so they should change out and give other people a chance to experience things. I would not call the school assignment favoritism, I would call it a position that can be eliminated with no recoil, along with other positions too. When push comes to shove, cutback and adjustments have to be made, and everyone involved should understand that. And the Chief will get the job done, but it's gonig to be painful for some. Kolbe SF??? Never.!

[Unregistered]

Here we are, almost six years later and the same problems exist. Town keeps wanting to take away from the PD, raising how much money we pay for insurance, STILL no fence, no COLAS, no raises and somehow the School Resource Officer Position is now a Accreditation Manager Position (REALLY?!). What's new: we can thank out new high priced town manager (who still gets her raises plus bonuses) for a full time position made to a part time position, our vehicles which not only look horrible but run horrible (when they run) and an extra dispatcher position (which isn't bad although an extra LEO position would of been much better). I guess it's comforting to know some things will never change, HA!