Cops Arrested! HR-218 to be tested in the courts.

[Carl Shawver]

Here we go! We knew it would happen sooner or later. In spite of HR-218, some off duty, out of state police officers have been arrested and charged with carrying concealed weapons in Sturgis, S.D., after being involved in a shooting.

The original felony charges were dismissed because of self-defense and lots of witnesses, but the prosecutors apparently felt they had to charge something so, disregarding HR-218, they charged two federal and two non-federal officers with carrying concealed weapons.

Read the full story: http://www.policelink.com/news/52744-4-cops-charged-with-carrying-hr218-to-be-tested

Here's an interesting excerpt from the story:

"Smith told The Times that he may have been targeted by the Hells Angels because he testified in a high-profile federal racketeering and murder trial in Seattle last year that sent several former and current members of the gang to prison."

The possibilty of such incidents was one of the principal justifications for passage of HR-218.

This case is worth watching.

:?

[The Nitely Blog]

Very interesting indeed Carl. Thanks for posting it. I will be one that will follow this story til it's conclusion. I own property out of the state of Florida which requires me to drive through and stop in several states along the way while getting to my vacation home. I always have a firearm on me along the way as well in the state of my vacation home. I find it very interesting that 2 of the off duty officers involved are Feds. Sort of reminds me of the saying, "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

[Carl Shawver]

Several decades ago, before I joined the Secret Service, the City of New York arrested some Secret Service Agents for carrying concealed firearms in NYC.

The Supreme Court ruled that Secret Service Agents could carry concealed firearms anywhere in the world that was under the jurisdiction of the United States of America. It would seem to me that the same applies to all federal law enforcement officers; not even needing the added protection of HR-218.

All of the officers will probably beat all of the charges, but this just demonstrates what I have said all along that in the mean time the local prosecutors can certainly lock you up, cost you legal fees, and generally make your life miserable for a while.... Which is why concealed carry should be just that - concealed, and very discreet.

Then, when and if you need it - you have it. :wink:

SORRY TO BRING THIS UP BUT...


PART OF THE LAW READS:

`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property;

YOU CAN CARRY/TAKE IT TO ANY STATE, BUT YOU CAN NOT BRING IT IN TO EVERY PLACE YOU GO.

[Carl Shawver]

Excellent point.

However, there is nothing in the news story to indicate that the establishment had posted a "no firearms" prohibition.

There is nothing in the story to indicate that the officers were "under the influence" of alcohol or drugs.

Absent these circumstances, no state law prohibiting carrying firearms in establishments serving alcohol applies. As the preamble of HR-218 says, "Nothwithstanding any state law to the contrary..."

And, the federal agents (U.S. Customs) did not need to rely on HR-218. What was the justification for arresting them?

:?:

[Britcop]

My understanding is that they were carrying their firearms inside an establishment that serves alcohol, and that they were consuming alcohol while armed. If this is true, that may account for the charge.

[Carl Shawver]

My understanding is that they were carrying their firearms inside an establishment that serves alcohol, and that they were consuming alcohol while armed. If this is true, that may account for the charge.

The provisions of HR-218 do not prohibit carrying a firearm inside an establishment that serves alcohol and furthermore negates any state law (or political subdivision thereof) to the contrary. Nor is it negated by the mere consumption of alcohol. The prohibition is for being "under the influence" of alcohol; just as you can drive a car while drinking alcohol as long as you are not "under the influence" of it.

Quote:

`Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

The provision for "qualified retirees" is the same, except there is a more detailed accounting of what is required for a retiree to be "qualified."

Hr218 was already tested in New York City. A Pennsylvania Constable was in New York to serve and arrest warrant. While sitting in his vehicle he was arrested by NYPD for carring a firearm. New York Superior Court (acity court) ruled the constable was covered under HR218 and the charges were dropped.

[Carl Shawver]

Hr218 was already tested in New York City. A Pennsylvania Constable was in New York to serve and arrest warrant. While sitting in his vehicle he was arrested by NYPD for carring a firearm. New York Superior Court (acity court) ruled the constable was covered under HR218 and the charges were dropped.


That only sets a precedent at the lowest level; a city. There could be tests in other cities, counties and at the state level. Also, the case could have been appealed to the State Appeals and Supreme Court, and ultimately to the federal District Appeals and U.S. Supreme Court, if the prosecutors wished.

And, even then we are only talking about NYC. Arrests could be, and probably will be, made in other jurisdictions in other states simply to continue to challenge the law.

Imagine what the 11th Federal Appeals District Court (encompassing California, et.al.) might rule in a test case. :shock:

Prudence continues to be the watch word.

It's all about to change anyway, when Obama gets elected. I guarantee you that he will take away the rights of LEO's, both active and retired, and not allow then to carry guns out of state. if you don't believe me than just wait.......it's coming :shock:

what i dont understand is why a brother officer would arrest another officer active or retired given 218 exists and what the hell even if it didnt a little professional courtesy should be given

[bountyhunter_ga]

Good morning all, as a retired deputy from Hillsborough Co.
I travel a lot with gun shows now I have never had a cop anywhere question me. Once in Columbia, North Carolina durning a bomb scare in the motel I was staying in a cop banged on the door and was hollering get up get up. Well you can just imagine what I did. Here's this 25 year old cop going to save my life telling me there's a bomb in the building ,So I said where is it I'll fix the problem. I had my glock in the small of my back when I came out the door. Oh my god you would think he had caught a bank robber or worst. He drew down on me and was very nervous about it. I told him to chill, badged him, he never looked at my badge or ID and let me go. This would have never happened in Tampa , I don't think.

We are all trained in many fields and when we retire we don't get stupid. There is a large number of retired cops that can help and are willing to do so out here.

I worked an accident out in Mission South Dakota. An Indian cop run into a truck next to our motel room. I heard the noise and run toward the accident. I found A large Indian cop lying across the steering wheel, and already had people looking through his car. I took control and ordered everyone on the sidewalk. Another reservation cop showed up started directing traffic while we did CPR of the driver that died despite our best efforts.

Guys you can't help yourself in a situation like this you are cops until the day you start your new assignment on gate patrol in heaven.

I and a police officer and live and work in eastern pennsylvania along the delaware river. There are times both on duty and off duty i have crossed state lines carrying my firearm. One time i was stopped and when asked if i had my firearm i replied "yes" and was told "good." I have, however, heard horror stories about other officers.
I also go to NYC, which is about an hour away. I asked an nypd police officerabout carrying in nyc. He said i should be able to but reccomndened a phone number for me to call (police plaza). I called and asked them the same question. I was told "under no circumstances will an out of state officer be permitted to carry in NYC. So much for hr-218

A a Patrol Officer for 30+ years in a major CA city, I have often encountered out of State officers who bring their piece along for vacation. Most of this pre-dates HR218. Always, despite the fact that CA did not recognize East Coast rights to carry for LEO, the standard practice was to allow any active LEO to carry. New York cops in particular were adamant that they would not give up their gun, no matter if they were drunk or disorderly. I find it reprehensible that NYC, who benefited from Professional Courtesy extended by CA LEO's, would now turn around and arrest those selfsame officers who cut them slack way before HR218. It has been my experience that most experienced PD Officers are extremely reluctant to get involved in the off-duty display of firearms unless they. their loved ones, or innocent civilians are being threatened with GBI or worse. How any city could encourage the incarceration of any Police Officer for protecting their own life or the lives of any other citizen is beyond belief. Maybe the murder rate in NYC or Washington DC would take a nosedive if they had to worry about off-duty or retired LEO tourists resisting assaults, robberies or becoming another statistic to the highest murder rates in the nation. As we have seen recently, even the DC law has been thrown out by the US Supreme Court. I expect NYC to be worried about loosing the Sullivan Act soon.

I am a former NYPD Lieutenant and have come across many off duty and on duty officers from other states during my 20yrs of service, the thought of arresting a fellow officer never entered my mind pre or post HR218. Every PD has A**HOLES we may have more than others but we also have over 35000 members. So please don't throw us all in the same boat most would do the right thing. God bless and BE SAFE.

Laws are laws; cop or no cop, the law apples to everyone. The problem with some cops is, they think that they're above the law.

[Alfie012]

what i dont understand is why a brother officer would arrest another officer active or retired given 218 exists and what the hell even if it didnt a little professional courtesy should be given..

[tamannajh]

We provide professional driving services to people in Charlotte, Gastonia, Concord and Mint Hill in North Carolina as well as Rock Hill, South Carolina in Charlotte limo.Our drivers are willing to pick you and your party up in any community surrounding our immediate service area. So we are the best in charlotte limo, car service , limousine and airport transportation and party bus Charlotte limo. we provide a wide range of services at Comfort Limousine. You may request sedan or town car service to transport you to and from the airport.

If you want to know more details please visit (http://www.comfortlimoservice.com/) our site.

[maricelafm16]

Day after day gay photos usage
http://shemmales.galleries.sexgalleries.top/?entry-jordon

[Unregistered]

I wonder who arrested another cop.

[djamelo]

Very interesting indeed Carl. Thanks for posting it. I will be one that will follow this story til it's conclusion. I own property (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/en/) out of the state of Florida which (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/ar) requires me to drive through (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/cz) and stop in several (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/mx) states along the way while getting to my vacation (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/bg) home. I always have a firearm (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/ua) on me along the way as well in the state of my vacation home. I find it very interesting that 2 of the off duty officers involved (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/ee)are Feds. Sort of reminds (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/gr) me of the saying, "better to be judged (http://www.deblocage-gratuits.com/lt) by 12 than carried by 6."