FOP

Seems to be a lot of disatisfied FOP members. To remove the FOP as our bargaining unit, we need 30 percent of the affected members to put in writing that they no longer want them to represent us. I think we have that. We also need to think about who we want representing us in lieu of the FOP, PBA perhaps?

Here's a link to the PERC form which includes the rules for revoking the FOP's certification:

http://perc.myflorida.com/forms/Form_6_ ... cation.pdf (http://perc.myflorida.com/forms/Form_6_-_Petition_to_Revoke_Certification.pdf)

Any organization that would publicly post for any of its members to "shut up" is not one I want to represent me.

Another thing is there are FOP board members who kiss the @&& of not only senior board members but SO admin. Dont expect anything out of the current fop, the dont have the ballz to hit the admin up for anything.

When are your elections for FOP board members. If you don't like what the current board is doing vote them out and someone new take over. The problems is not with the board members but with the membership. Everyone want to ***** and moan about what the board has or has not done and no one wants to step up to help. You want the board to be the bad guys. Why should they, when they don't get the backing of the membership.

Like I have said in the past, the FOP Lodge #123 is only as strong as its memberships not its board. Stop complaiing and do something. Stop the ass kissing and show Hall what a Union is all about. If you stand united instead of blaming everyone else then something will get done. If you don't united as one membership there is nothing going to be done and Hall is going t owalk over you like he has done in the past.

Sr Resident, the problem is the FOP board kissing ass. One board member kisses so much ass in a day in no time she'll be promoted.

Well when elections come up. Vote her and the rest of them out. Then replace them with people who are not looking to further their personal career but for the good of the Order. Somebody has to take the charge and lead the rest of the members. If not the union is doomed.

What cracks me up is the continual excuse by the FOP for us to stand up and attend meetings or things won't change. What they don't seem to understand is that we chose THEM to get us new things that we need. The FOP was voted in to fight for the things that we need. I pay the $40 dollars a month for this representation yet they only seem to fight for the things that benefit them the most. The FOP knows what we want and if they don't, they should ask us. There is no reason why we should have to all attend these meetings and why we should all have to fight for what we want. If we all were needed to stand up and fight for what we want, then what is the purpose of having the FOP to represent us.

It appears as though my $40 a month is going to feed the people who attend these meetings. Forget the legal coverage they give us. Drop FOP and get prepaid legal for $20 a month. No matter if you are an FOP member or not, whatever contract they pass will also affect you. So why be a member. I see no reason.

We must have a lot of farmers on the blog lately but i've yet to see a farmer get blood out of a turnip! However, i see that we still have some that think you can so step up boys and grab a hoe (not a "ho" boys...a hoe being a farm tool) and start digging those turnips up. Put your name on the list and come up and take a swing at bat. And why don't y'all leave her alone. She's done more than you have. She tried and that's more than we can say for a lot of you. We've now turned her into a cynic like the rest of you and we need fresh meat to carve up on the farm!

Sr Resident, the problem is the FOP board kissing ass. One board member kisses so much ass in a day in no time she'll be promoted.

Yea she'll probably make the rank of Captain in NO TIME. LAME

What cracks me up is the continual excuse by the FOP for us to stand up and attend meetings or things won't change. What they don't seem to understand is that we chose THEM to get us new things that we need. The FOP was voted in to fight for the things that we need. I pay the $40 dollars a month for this representation yet they only seem to fight for the things that benefit them the most. The FOP knows what we want and if they don't, they should ask us. There is no reason why we should have to all attend these meetings and why we should all have to fight for what we want. If we all were needed to stand up and fight for what we want, then what is the purpose of having the FOP to represent us.

It appears as though my $40 a month is going to feed the people who attend these meetings. Forget the legal coverage they give us. Drop FOP and get prepaid legal for $20 a month. No matter if you are an FOP member or not, whatever contract they pass will also affect you. So why be a member. I see no reason.

It's not an "excuse" to show up. The Sheriff will never take 3 people seriously.....that's why they need our support. And just to clear things up......our elected FOP board is NOT our bargaining representatives. Our bargaining reps are some folks who were willing to stand up and fight for all the rest of us who refuse to fight.

They did ask us what we wanted back before negotiations started. Did you give your input? I sincerely hope you did.

Prepaid legal is a joke but your welcome to get it if you want it. Being a member of the FOP means having someone to fight for you when you can't or don't want to, making sure your butt's legally covered (whether your right or wrong), and belonging to a fraternal organization that does more than have meetings once a month.

It's understandable why some people choose to stand in the dark and criticize what they don't know much about. It's easier to have someone else put their NECK on the line to fight for us. But its extremely cowardly to sit there and make accusations about what you have not even educated yourself about. If you can't attend a meeting, talk to some of the folks that do. Don't believe what one or two people say. There are bitter folks out there that like to talk trash. Don't be another one of those bitter people. Get a little more information before you assume to know what's going on.

What cracks me up is the continual excuse by the FOP for us to stand up and attend meetings or things won't change. What they don't seem to understand is that we chose THEM to get us new things that we need. The FOP was voted in to fight for the things that we need. I pay the $40 dollars a month for this representation yet they only seem to fight for the things that benefit them the most. The FOP knows what we want and if they don't, they should ask us. There is no reason why we should have to all attend these meetings and why we should all have to fight for what we want. If we all were needed to stand up and fight for what we want, then what is the purpose of having the FOP to represent us.

It appears as though my $40 a month is going to feed the people who attend these meetings. Forget the legal coverage they give us. Drop FOP and get prepaid legal for $20 a month. No matter if you are an FOP member or not, whatever contract they pass will also affect you. So why be a member. I see no reason.

It's not an "excuse" to show up. The Sheriff will never take 3 people seriously.....that's why they need our support. And just to clear things up......our elected FOP board is NOT our bargaining representatives. Our bargaining reps are some folks who were willing to stand up and fight for all the rest of us who refuse to fight.

They did ask us what we wanted back before negotiations started. Did you give your input? I sincerely hope you did.

Prepaid legal is a joke but your welcome to get it if you want it. Being a member of the FOP means having someone to fight for you when you can't or don't want to, making sure your butt's legally covered (whether your right or wrong), and belonging to a fraternal organization that does more than have meetings once a month.

It's understandable why some people choose to stand in the dark and criticize what they don't know much about. It's easier to have someone else put their NECK on the line to fight for us. But its extremely cowardly to sit there and make accusations about what you have not even educated yourself about. If you can't attend a meeting, talk to some of the folks that do. Don't believe what one or two people say. There are bitter folks out there that like to talk trash. Don't be another one of those bitter people. Get a little more information before you assume to know what's going on.

Are the people, who are playing Monday Morning Quarterbacks, the same people that complain our admin are a bucn of Monday Morning Quarterbacks????? If so, get away from your double-standards.

I have seen the contract that is currently being negotiated. It looks to me like the board members have put a bunch of self serving crap in there that would benefit a select few and not benifit the agency as a whole. They asked for raises and assignment pay, stuff that we all know there is no money to pay for. I really like the section about the FOP pres being releived of law enforcement duties to strictly handle FOP buisness. It was a nice little touch though that he remebered to put a clause in that would still alow him to work side jobs. The contract also would call for the current promotional list to be deleted an for the process to start over immediately.(How convienant, the FOP pres slept in and missed the promotional exam and therfore could not praticipate in the curent promotional process). Under the contract that is being negotiated, you can only test for sergeant if you have spent five years on patrol. If you spent 4 1/2 years on patrol and then transferred to narc, SRO, traff, prop crimes, major crimes, aim, or any toher specialized unit you would not be able to test for sergeant. God knows we wouldn't want any well rounded officers being promoted. Sounds to me like the the board is trying to eliminate people from the promotional process that stand to be very competitive. After reveiwing the contract for myself I do not beleive that the FOP has our best intrests at heart. We are in the midst of a budget and manpower crisis, and the FOP pres wants to still get paid by the SO but not do any actual law enforcement work taking one more person off the road. Call me crazy, but I dont see how this benifits the officers of the agency as a whole. Don' take my word for it get a copy of the contract and see for yourself. Don't expect to get a copy from the FOP though, gotta do a public records request to the admin. When the time comes, vote no! This contract sucks!

Are there any provisions for a blond with a big butt to get promoted? About the sgt list, etc one person did not test on that day, but the sheriff gave him "special" provisions to test on a seperate day. Sucks huh? The FOP pres is, ugh, dumb?

You people are simply amazing. The only time the sheriff's office stood together was against the BOCC trying to cut road deputies. Even then most of you didn't want to be there. And that's the problem. You don't stand up for what you believe in by confronting issues head on. You'd rather sit on some lame message board and post anonymously about people that you don't know, or talk smack behind their backs thinking that it won't get back to them. It always does.
To the person that said that you pay your dues so that you don't have to attend meetings...you pay those dues so that you CAN attend the meetings and let your voice be heard. Otherwise, you're just another one of the idiots sitting in the crowd with everything in the world to ***** and cry about but no where to actually do that...except anonymously on a lame message board. Boy, that really does a lot of good for the rest of your fellow officers. You're probably the same type of guy that *****es about the government but doesn't do anything except pay taxes and not vote. And you're probably a really nice person...hell I probably have been pulled over by you and let off with a warning.
If you want something, you have to go out and get it. You can't expect other people to do all of the work for you. If you want to change the FOP and get the amount of votes that you need to get another board or another bargaining unit in, get off the message board and start making phone calls. Start getting personal email addresses. Get pro-active. You will never get the amount of votes you need by sitting around and complaining. Everyone will look at it as either personal attacks against the current board or simply see your lack of couth when handling these situations and run the other way. For those with just a high school education couth means class (or lack there of in this case).
Now for kissing up. People kiss butt all the time in every profession all around the world. And if you say you've never done it, you're a flat out lier. You kissed your in-laws butt when you met them for the first time. You kissed butt when you started with the sheriff's department so you could pass FTO. We all do it. If you're goal isn't to advance within your sheriff's department, then what the hell are you doing? Do you not have personal goals? You don't want anything better for yourself? Or is it that your high school diploma can only get you so far so you have to bring everyone else down with you? Take pot shots at other officers. You guys have really serious issues coming up, and if this is the way that you deal with them, I feel really sorry for you. I think it makes you a poor excuse for an officer and human being in general. And if the way that you continually deal with your problems is to bring others down, I will pray that your children don't learn from your example. And if you haven't had kids yet, please sterilize yourself so that the rest of us don't have to deal with another one just like you. I hope that I brightened up your day as much as you ruined my view of humanity as a whole. Have a wonderful day and stay safe patrolling our streets. You never know if your fellow officer actually has your back or is just going to stick a knife in it.

To FOP Sucks,

Just so you know, many other agencies have the provision of the FOP (or bargaining unit) president being "detached". It's not uncommon and not something the current president came up with out of no where.
There are also things in the contract that will not be in the final signed contract. It's a negotiating process. They ask for monitary items they know they will not get because when the money is there, there is a chance that the Admin will say, "what do you mean it's important, you never made issue of it before." As I said, this contract is not close to being finished in negotiations.
If you notice, no one takes a board position to get promoted. It doesn't happen. I can tell you that many on the board have taken a lot of heat from Admin. I know personally that if I end up getting the President position, I will probably never get promoted. I'm fine with that because I have never tried to get promoted.
I will also tell you that it is illegal for someone to pass out the negotiation contracts and make copies. That is not to keep people out of the loop, because those negotiation meetings are open to the public. Anyone can attend.
As for the "blonde", I have been through many FOP boards and I can tell you that she works very hard. She is not the President or Vice President, she is the secretary. She is constantly trying to keep people updated through emails, etc. Plus she has other things she is made to do because membership is not at meetings to help out with anything. It's the way it has been for a long time. Quite literally, there are 5 non-board members that show up at meetings. Then, I come on here because I was told about the things being said and find that what I was told was true. I never come on here and now I know why. If you have issues with the contract how come no one has called or approached anyone on the contract negotiation committee to find out why something was entered in? If you disagree with it, you can contact anyone on the negotiating committee to tell them you disagree and why. Really, sitting here on a board posting anonymously doesn't help the FOP board when it comes to contract negotiations. Why? Anyone can post anonymously and said "I disagree with that". If we don't know for sure that you even work for the agency how can we take stock in your complaints? No one can do anything to help you or fix your issues if they do not know what they are. That is why there is a contract status portion at every meeting.
Thank you for your time.
I'm not going to bother hiding behind an anonymous name.

The fact that a full time detached FOP President position is being considered is ridiculous. Considering the current budget crisis, lay-offs and manpower concerns our agency is currently facing. How can we argue that we are overworked and underpaid and in the same breath propose a plan to remove a deputy from Patrol to dedicate solely to the FOP? The addition of a clause allowing him/her (you) to work off-duty makes it apparent the proposal is completely self-serving. Deputies already contribute annual leave to facilitate bargaining, as well as monthly dues (which have seen a dramatic increase since the inception of collective bargaining). Many members did not complain, due to viewing these contributions as necessary to facilitate the bargaining process. I wasn't going to mention anything about "her," but since she appears to be a hot topic on this board, I am compelled to put in my two cents. We can no longer stand idley by and watch our dues go to facilitate all-expense paid trips to Tallahassee to "attend" the Law Enforcement Memorial, in which, the Secretary you mentioned got so "sick" the night prior and failed to participate in the march on the Capital. She may argue that her illness was one that occurred naturally, while others present argue that it was due to the massive amounts of alcohol she consumed the night prior.

The FOP has become a joke to both its members and the administration. No one takes its seriously due to the unprofessional and apparently self-serving behavior of both the board members and bargaining committee, which are one in the same, give or take a couple of members.

I also have reviewed the proposed contract. I think a copy is floating around the department. I encourage everyone to take a look and see for themselves if they believe FOP has our best interest at heart. I have not doubt that there will be plenty of appalled members. Try and ask the FOP bargaining committee for a copy, see where it gets you.

That being said, Lori and any other FOP Bargaining Committee members: I am challenging you to publish a PDF copy of the proposed FOP contract to all members either via e-mail or on this site to let us decide for ourselves.

To FOP Sucks,

Just so you know, many other agencies have the provision of the FOP (or bargaining unit) president being "detached". It's not uncommon and not something the current president came up with out of no where.
There are also things in the contract that will not be in the final signed contract. It's a negotiating process. They ask for monitary items they know they will not get because when the money is there, there is a chance that the Admin will say, "what do you mean it's important, you never made issue of it before." As I said, this contract is not close to being finished in negotiations.
If you notice, no one takes a board position to get promoted. It doesn't happen. I can tell you that many on the board have taken a lot of heat from Admin. I know personally that if I end up getting the President position, I will probably never get promoted. I'm fine with that because I have never tried to get promoted.
I will also tell you that it is illegal for someone to pass out the negotiation contracts and make copies. That is not to keep people out of the loop, because those negotiation meetings are open to the public. Anyone can attend.
As for the "blonde", I have been through many FOP boards and I can tell you that she works very hard. She is not the President or Vice President, she is the secretary. She is constantly trying to keep people updated through emails, etc. Plus she has other things she is made to do because membership is not at meetings to help out with anything. It's the way it has been for a long time. Quite literally, there are 5 non-board members that show up at meetings. Then, I come on here because I was told about the things being said and find that what I was told was true. I never come on here and now I know why. If you have issues with the contract how come no one has called or approached anyone on the contract negotiation committee to find out why something was entered in? If you disagree with it, you can contact anyone on the negotiating committee to tell them you disagree and why. Really, sitting here on a board posting anonymously doesn't help the FOP board when it comes to contract negotiations. Why? Anyone can post anonymously and said "I disagree with that". If we don't know for sure that you even work for the agency how can we take stock in your complaints? No one can do anything to help you or fix your issues if they do not know what they are. That is why there is a contract status portion at every meeting.
Thank you for your time.
I'm not going to bother hiding behind an anonymous name.

I feel that it is necessary for me to address a few of the points that you made in your previous post. First the issue of the FOP Pres being detached full time. I know that some agencies do have a full time collective bargaining president. Most of these agencies are very large agencies (Broward, Orange) and although I don’t know it to be fact, I would be willing to bet that none of these agencies are as small as Santa Rosa. Many agencies have full time SWAT teams, doesn’t mean that we need one. We are in the midst of a staffing crisis. The last thing that we need to do is take another body off the road. This is not in the best interest of the agency as a whole and certainly not in the best interest of the public. Are we really going to argue to the CC that we need more people and that our staffing is on the verge of being unsafe when we are taking people off the road and putting them in a BS position like that.
You also referred to asking for things you know you are not going to get as part of the “negotiation process”. The only problem is, the only good things in the contract are things that we all know we are not going to get because of the money situation. This leaves the other stuff, which I was complaining about, as the items that will be probably be approved by the admin. Instead of throwing a nice Christmas party, or sending members on trips, why doesn’t the FOP take some of that money and hire a labor law attorney to negotiate for us. The admin certainly has their attorney, why don’t we.
What is your basis for the statement that it was illegal for me to get a copy of the contract or make copies of the contract? I got the contract through a public records request and I will make copies and pass them out to whomever I want. This is a serious red flag to me. Why does the FOP care who has a copy of the contract. I realize that FOP negotiations are a public forum; I don’t ever recall receiving notifications that negotiations were taking place. Besides that, anyone who works days would have to burn their own leave to attend. Sorry but the FOP already gets enough of my leave. While you try to paint this picture that everything is out in the open, it certainly is not. Some of us have other family or community obligations that do not allow us to attend meetings. We should still be able to remain informed. The FOP has a website (which still shows the last contract as the contract being negotiated), email, and bulletin boards (which haven’t been updated in a while) in each district. You mentioned that there are only five non board members who show up to the meetings. This explains a lot if these are the only people who had any input into the contact articles. I attend board meetings when I can and I have showed up at CC meetings whenever the FOP has asked me to. I shouldn’t have to show up at every FOP meeting to ensure that the FOP is looking out for the best interests of the agency members as a whole and not filling the contract with articles that only benefit a select few.
I also wanted to point out that I never said anything about a blonde in my post. As a matter of fact, I never personally attacked anyone. I know each and every member of the board; I also know that each and every one of them are good people and hard workers. I do however question their motives and judgment when it comes to making decisions for the FOP that affect the rest of us. While I will agree with you that it is cowardly to come on this board and post anonymous personal attacks, and rumors, I disagree that you should have post your name when you are posting something that is true and verifiable. I may work in a district with a ranking supervisor who is also a board member. I should be able to post the truth freely without fear of retaliation. You may call me a coward, I call it not wanting to become a target for some P.O.’d supervisor who does not agree with me.
I hope you don’t take this crap personally, this is not personal, it is business.

Former President Earl Griffin used to pass out copies of tentative contracts all the time. Lori - Show me where its illegal dissemenate a tentative contract? Please don't tell me you are one of those people who would say something before they had their facts straight.

Just went to NWFL PBA's website. Funny, they have a "proposed" contract posted on their site in PDF format in the "News" section. Wondering if it's illegal for me to print and disseminate a copy of their contract? Lori?

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/ind ... TM&Title=- (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0447/SEC501.HTM&Title=-)>2008->Ch0447->Section%20501#0447.501

Unfair labor practices. Basically, I already have a good idea of who put it out there. The problems with it are this, the last contract revisions came from the SO and from what I know, the Negotiating committee has yet to receive it from the attorney. The attorney for the SO has had it for around 4-5 months. May even be longer. As I said previously, if you want changes to the contract, come be on the committee. I am not on the bargaining committee. I plan to go to the next public meeting on it, as should everyone else who can go.

Now, if someone were to put out there "This is what we're requesting"........that's one thing. But, considering any revisions to this contract were last done by the SO.........I don't know who's requested what it's gone back and forth so many times.

I did type up a long statement to FOP Sucks, and I will try to sum it up. I agree with many things you said. I am not going to demand that anyone post their name. I chose to. Most won't on here. Some just come here to antagonize. That's fine too. I understand that many fear repricussion from others in the agency. I have gotten past that.
I will also add that many things put into a contract may come to fruition at some point in time and because of that, it's put in much earlier than it's ever expected to be received. I don't think anyone would expect for a bargaining unit president in this agency to be detached anytime soon. Maybe not even in the next 10 years. But, it's setting up the future groups for the possibility.
With regards to a labor attorney...... I have spoken to other lodge presidents that do have a labor attorney. It is expensive to have one on retainer and we have none in the area. The closest labor attorney is in Tallahassee, which means we would have to pay the expense for them to come here for negotiations. While that is something I believe will be or would be beneficial, I also believe that something like that can only be accomplished with a mass majority of agreement of the membership. Reality is, if we had to pay to have an attorney on retainer, it would be expensive and more than likely dues would have to go up. I'm not sure if anyone can afford the expense with the current financial situations of many.

I also agree that you should be able to trust that your lodge board is doing what's best for the mass majority of the membership whether you're there or not. I have not seen whatever is floating around the Sheriff's Office as a possible contract. Really, it's not worth looking at to me until we all go to vote on it. Yes, every member will have the opportunity to read a copy of it before the membership votes on whether to accept it or not.

Guest, not sure what the issues are with you.......glad you know who I am. It seems you just like to stir the pot. Be happy in the fact that you haven't irritated me a bit. You're really the only one that looks bad at this point. Not sure why you won't post your name. I would imagine the admin would look favorably upon you and considering I do not supervise anyone, there should be no fear of retaliation.

Here's the whole text for the statute, cut and pasted with no ommissions, you linked to Lori. Where in it is the illegality of disseminating copies of contracts? Inquiring minds would like to know. By the way, me and "FOP Sucks" are not the same person, although I think his name absolutely rocks.

447.501 Unfair labor practices.--

(1) Public employers or their agents or representatives are prohibited from:

(a) Interfering with, restraining, or coercing public employees in the exercise of any rights guaranteed them under this part.

(b) Encouraging or discouraging membership in any employee organization by discrimination in regard to hiring, tenure, or other conditions of employment.

(c) Refusing to bargain collectively, failing to bargain collectively in good faith, or refusing to sign a final agreement agreed upon with the certified bargaining agent for the public employees in the bargaining unit.

(d) Discharging or discriminating against a public employee because he or she has filed charges or given testimony under this part.

(e) Dominating, interfering with, or assisting in the formation, existence, or administration of, any employee organization or contributing financial support to such an organization.

(f) Refusing to discuss grievances in good faith pursuant to the terms of the collective bargaining agreement with either the certified bargaining agent for the public employee or the employee involved.

(2) A public employee organization or anyone acting in its behalf or its officers, representatives, agents, or members are prohibited from:

(a) Interfering with, restraining, or coercing public employees in the exercise of any rights guaranteed them under this part or interfering with, restraining, or coercing managerial employees by reason of their performance of job duties or other activities undertaken in the interests of the public employer.

(b) Causing or attempting to cause a public employer to discriminate against an employee because of the employee's membership or nonmembership in an employee organization or attempting to cause the public employer to violate any of the provisions of this part.

(c) Refusing to bargain collectively or failing to bargain collectively in good faith with a public employer.

(d) Discriminating against an employee because he or she has signed or filed an affidavit, petition, or complaint or given any information or testimony in any proceedings provided for in this part.

(e) Participating in a strike against the public employer by instigating or supporting, in any positive manner, a strike. Any violation of this paragraph shall subject the violator to the penalties provided in this part.

(f) Instigating or advocating support, in any positive manner, for an employee organization's activities from high school or grade school students or students in institutions of higher learning.

(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (1) and (2), the parties' rights of free speech shall not be infringed, and the expression of any arguments or opinions shall not constitute, or be evidence of, an unfair employment practice or of any other violation of this part, if such expression contains no promise of benefits or threat of reprisal or force.

The point of the statute he posted was to show that whoever leaked an unratified contract is hindering the bargaining process. I know you might not understand this, but your sheriff does not want to renegotiate anything. Regardless of whether you are with the FOP or with PBA, which is why the bargaining agreement that your board submitted is taking so long getting back...regardless of what is included within. Your sheriff is a politician. He doesn't want a unionized group asking for raises or trying to get anything in addition to what is already in his budget from the BOCC. And you have a lot more people than your FOP lodge to be pissed off at, from administration to the BOCC to the general public. But you, as employees and members, apparently don't care enough or you have "better things to do" than to attend the meetings designed specifically for dealing with issues in your department. And the FOP is your ONLY chance at actually getting raises and benefits taken care of at the present time.
Just to set the record straight...
The collective bargaining process is based upon the democratic principle of majority rule. When the majority speaks by selecting a collective bargaining agent, they give the certified agent the exclusive right and the power to represent all employees in the bargaining unit. This statutory right to act as the exclusive bargaining representative includes the right to negotiate a collective bargaining agreement and process grievances involving disputes over the meaning of the agreement. The collective bargaining agreement determines the wages, hours, and terms and conditions of employment of all bargaining unit members, regardless of whether they are also members of the union.Individual employees must negotiate with their employer through the certified agent, rather than on an individual basis. No employee organization other than the certified agent can deal with the employer for bargaining unit members. Taken from http://perc.myflorida.com/pubs/Practical_Handbook.pdf
In idiot proof terms it means that all negotiations go through the FOP since it is designated as your liaison between employee and state. Now, the board is under NO obligation to share information outside of the bargaining unit...since nothing has returned from your sheriff. Once a resolution between the two parties is reached the employees must have the contract information made available to them. After that, both members and non-members vote on the proposed contract. Even then it is only ratified by a majority of votes. It is a secret ballot and the counting must be done in public. All of this is also included in the Handbook pdf. Your sheriff is going to make changes, and your board is going to examine those changes and resubmit it. Once the sheriff agrees to the proposed contract, it is made available to ALL employees. Your FOP reps should then post the contract in its entirety and schedule a date for voting. If it passes congratulations. If it doesn't then you go to impasse.
According to the PBA site, they posted their proposed contract on 10/31 and held a vote 1 week later. From the posts on the ECSO board, they aren't feeling much better about PBA. And the longer you stall and keep talking about switching to PBA, the longer you will go without a contract resolution.

Sorry, I meant she in that first sentice. Just assumed you were a male.

I personally would like to thank Anna Lewis for her excellent work as our F.O.P. secretary. Anna works very hard to keep our membership informed of up-coming meetings etc. Being the secretary is a thankless job in any fraternal organization. Most of us would run before accepting the position.

I think it was pretty heartless to attack her for a minor indescretion at the Tallahasse Law Enforcement Memorial Service.
No one is perfect! We have all been there. Keep up the good work Anna!

If your personally thanking why not sign it?
Lots of assumptions from people claiming they have facts on here.
Some posts are personal and some are business.
Funny how most of the personal seems focused on the women Anna and Lori by an "anonimous" guest, which is also a woman.
Your best bet is to keep it about the FOP in general. These are two strong women doing a man's job and they will eat you alive. Theres no reason for them to kiss ass or prove anything to us.
The blonde with the big butt comment was stupid. We'll have to work on recruiting some skinnier, big breasted women to go out on patrol. I'd sure feel alot better. Of course then she'd just end up sleeping with someone in admin like a major. But we don't want to get too personal, do we?

If your personally thanking why not sign it?
Lots of assumptions from people claiming they have facts on here.
Some posts are personal and some are business.
Funny how most of the personal seems focused on the women Anna and Lori by an "anonimous" guest, which is also a woman.
Your best bet is to keep it about the FOP in general. These are two strong women doing a man's job and they will eat you alive. Theres no reason for them to kiss ass or prove anything to us.
The blonde with the big butt comment was stupid. We'll have to work on recruiting some skinnier, big breasted women to go out on patrol. I'd sure feel alot better. Of course then she'd just end up sleeping with someone in admin like a major. But we don't want to get too personal, do we?

Sorry, wasn't me guys (or gals)...better find someone else to blame the nasty comments on. Been there and done that with the sexist stuff and I wouldn't stoop to that level. I don't appreciate being credited with some grammatically incorrect B.S. posts attacking someone who isn't a blip on my radar screen. It wasn't me who made the "fat" and "kiss a**" comments. I encourage you to check the IP address if the Moderator is willing to give it to you. I'm certain they would if the posts are a violation of law. I've sent Anna e-mails from my personal computer in the past, so she has mine to compare.

I endured years of criticism and humilation on this same message board and you know what? I took it because I felt like, to a degree, I deserved it. Trash me if you want, but leave Keith alone. He does more for the deputies of this agency than you'll ever know and he doesn't deserve this crap.

Mai

Lori...if this is you, I really expected more from you.

Anna...if this is you, I've been where you are and you need to grow some thicker skin and realize not everyone, especially me, is involved in a vast conspiracy to hold you down.

Bottom line, contract expired Oct 1, "last year". If all the FOP players are trying as hard as stated here, then the admin is pretty much telling the FOP that it will do what it damn well pleases.

Mai,
I have not posted anything I haven't put my name on. Quite honestly, I do not know who is posting under guest. There are so many different "guests" on here it's tough to separate one from the other. I did not come on here to berate anyone. I came on here to explain and educate some people about the processes. I have no problem attaching my name to my posts. I've been here long enough that people either like me or hate me.
While I agree with you that Keith does work hard for this agency and he has helped me several times with things I needed or information I needed, I can say he has a part in this as well as he is the person the FOP bargains with. I will also say, some of the things that have gone on in those contract negotiation meetings have disappointed me. I plan on being at the next one to watch what happens this time.
Lori

I will say, to the guest that copied and pasted the statute.........
Apparently you did not read everything I typed or you would have understood by now. I realize that you and FOP Sucks are not the same person. At least FOP Sucks has intelligent comments and real issues to discuss.
Lori

Hey the blonde with the big butt, I wanna spank ya, I wanna thank ya. Loris, I'll see you in the hottub but there better not be any bubbles till I turn on the machine. Yo Mia, let me told you dis: you maxed out okay. Yo wok yo way do da top mane and da sheriff mane got a cute wife so yo stuck with that minnie me guy, okay mane? Sorry bout dis having to let yo down,mane. but if I had a choice of girls I would take the blonde with the big butt or that lori chick ok, mane? I doubt any of dem mane would be backstabbers, JUST LIKE YOU.

That was by far, the dumbest post I have ever seen. Fist off the "blond with the big butt" is a dedicated deputy and FOP member. She is respectable and would not give you the time or day. By the way, who cares if she got trashed in Tallahassee? We all need to blow off some steam and if she needed to have a few then so be it. Second, I doubt Lori would get into a hot tub with you, considering that her husband would not take kindly to this nor would she have the inclination to get into one with anyone but her husband. Third, Mai, not ‘Mia’ is a very hardworking detective in our Major Crimes Unit. Who cares if she has or had a relationship with Keith Morris. Quite frankly singling her out about her relationship is old news and no one even mentions it anymore until she pops her head in and gives her two cents. At least she tells you what is on her mind and puts her name on it.

Val Venus was the name of a professional wrestler, whom had this gimmick of being a porn star/ womanizer. So the person who wrote that post should get off the couch and away from the tv, put down the beer and donuts, and get to the next FOP meeting and voice your views face to face instead of posting sexual innuendos under the guise of anonymity.

Can anyone tell me when the FOP has ever fought for anything? I mean really-really fought. When has Johns come to the aid and fought for the rights of anyone? He just makes excuses for Hall. Everyone needs to take a look at the signed Collective Bargaining Agreement. No, not the one on the FOP website; the signed one. The one on the FOP website is an ammended version. Is that how we ammend anything, just let it blend in and look like its the original? Shouldn't it say "AS AMMENDED"? The FOP is out for itself and any perks it can pick up. The FOP then takes no responsibility for what is on their own site. Again, can anyone tell me anything the FOP has done for you? I have no faith that Hall will do anything for the Deputies and Sergeants of the agency, and even less faith that the FOP will do anything to help. Quit the FOP now. Show them your voice by taking the dues money away. Remember, money talks.

Whats wrong, when someone brings the facts to he table there are no takers? Still trying to find the signed original? How about asking the FOP for the original. Probably get the response that they are not responsible for the original. Take a look at what they really bargain for, then quit the FOP.

What are the facts?
A)There have been approximately 10 people on this thread. What percentage of your department is that? Even out of those 10 there are only a few that have sided with you on the FOP sucks bandwagon.
B)There should not be a signed contract if there hasn't been a vote. If your sheriff still has his copy of the bargaining agreement in his possession then he hasn't signed it either. So there would not be a signed copy of any contract except for the one that is expiring.
C)You can't do a public records request on a form or document that has not yet entered into the public domain. Most governmental agencies, including sheriffs departments, do not release unsigned agreements until negotiations on those contracts have terminated. This is nationwide. They do however, usually submit the contract after negotiations are completed and before the contracts go before a vote. So, the contract that was received was not, and should not have been, obtained through a public records request as was stated earlier. Which means it was either obtained through the bargaining committee of the FOP or the bargaining committee of the sheriff's department. My guess is the sheriff's department, which screams impasse.
D)The statements that have been posted on this board have been speculative at best. No one has presented anything factual. Even the attacks you're making on each other all seem like they're heresay and that none of you actually knows what the hell you're talking about. But that's what people that don't know do. They talk.

My earlier suggestion remains. If you have a problem with your FOP lodge and you want to switch to another bargaining agency, you are going to have to sell it yourself by making contacts. But regardless of where you go, if you aren't involved in the process you're going to feel left out somehow. Whether it's how they spend your contributions or how they bargain the contract. If you don't show up to meetings to get involved then you really have no argument, no matter which CBA your department uses. I know you have no reason to listen to me, but I have no stake in either your department, your community, or your lodge. My hope is that you can take some friendly non-biased advise and apply it. You have to have a bargaining agent in dealing with the state government whether you're a member or not.

Why are you talking about a "current" contract? One more time for the unenlightened: The contract expired, that is expired, in Oct of 07. The FOP has not given the troops a contract in over a year. Maybe the last poster is correct, we should go elsewhere.

Hey "NON-LOE OBSERVER", maybe you should go over to some site you have expertise with. I did not say that the "FOP sucks", you did. I believe that the FOP has its place as a fraternal organization, but has not shown any bargaining abilities. The contract that is in force today expired over a year ago. Why do you expect people to be anything other than disappointed with what the FOP had done to represent the Deputies and Sergeants? Is there really anything wrong with people giving their opinions or offering facts about what is really going on? It is obvious that you know nothing about what is going on with collective bargaining, so how about taking your NON-LOE opinions and advice to some place like a fishing industry site.

The contract expired, that is expired, in Oct of 07. The FOP has not given the troops a contract in over a year. Maybe the last poster is correct, we should go elsewhere.

Am I to understand that you have been without a working contract for over one year? Remember, there are two parties to this not just the FOP. When did the FOP submit a proposed contract to the sheriff's bargaining committee? Keep in mind that it is in the best interest of the sheriff to NOT have a contract in place. Without a contract you are still protected by labor practice laws, but your benefits and pay are non-negotiable. At some point a decision is going to have to be made depending on how long your sheriff has actually had your proposed contract (some type of statute of limitations). I didn't realize the situation was that dated. Your board needs to be more proactive at reaching a resolution with the sheriff's department, even if that means getting state or national bargaining personnel involved. And on the other side, the sheriff's bargaining committee should realize that non-contracted employees have other options available in surrounding counties. From what my sources suggest, options that have better pay and in place contracts.


Why do you expect people to be anything other than disappointed with what the FOP had done to represent the Deputies and Sergeants? Is there really anything wrong with people giving their opinions or offering facts about what is really going on? It is obvious that you know nothing about what is going on with collective bargaining, so how about taking your NON-LOE opinions and advice to some place like a fishing industry site. You have every right to be disappointed, but your disappointment should not be directed at one place. How active are you in your lodge? Are you part of the bargaining process? Do you even know who is? I'm certainly not active in your lodge, the bargaining process, or even know who is on the committee for either side. I do know the law and your rights as state employees. You should be looking for more out of your bargaining unit, but you should also be asking your sheriff why he has had a contract placed in front of him and has not sent his revisions back to the FOP lodge with that amount of time that has lapsed. In my dealings with the government, I'm more prone to side with the FOP over any type of local government so there was no reason for me to say that the FOP sucks. You might want to go back and re-read that. I didn't just stumble on to your forum here. Someone in your department told me what was going on so I stopped in. As far as fishing sites go, I'm not that much of a fisherman. I'm more of a legal mind. Besides, golf is more my thing. The bottom line is no one is going to be happy 100 percent of the time with who represents them, whether its PBA or FOP. But it's going to be one of them regardless. You're going to have people that don't like something about everything. Instead of *****ing and complaining about them, look for the avenues to make the changes that you want. To do that you have to go to meetings and talk to the people that are elected to the board and committees.

I am going to speak for the last time on this topic, mainly because I believe I am getting no where, although my efforts are sincere. I can tell you that the Sheriff's Attorney has had the contract since somewhere around mid-June. I can also tell you that the executive board has asked repeatedly to get it back. When an attorney is paid hourly they are not in a hurry.

I will also say this. The main goal of the last contract was to cement officer rights. The previous contract was littered with "see Civil Service Agreement ###". That being said, that particular agreement has been modified several dozen times in the last few years. When it's modified or completely deleted it creates problems for the contract we hold. The main goal of the new contract is to get those employee rights in writing, leaving nothing that says "See Civil Service Agreement". That is important because the BOCC can change the Civil Service Agreement whenever they wish. That is a problem for us. Everyone should see that as a problem. While that goal hasn't been directly expressed by the board, it's somewhat difficult for the board to do that when a handful of people out of a couple hundred show up at meetings. If someone were to ask me about this I would tell them directly.

Now, I am very unsure at this point what people actually want because it hasn't been addressed. All I hear is that the FOP isn't doing anything. What exactly do you want to see happen? What end-goal are you looking for? If it's never directly stated, you cannot expect that one is going to read your mind to find out.

Are there a number of things that the FOP needs to attempt to acquire from the Administration? Sure..........but there is no magic wand allowing that to happen in one contract. Those things come as we learn and grow and hopefully gain support within the department. A couple of people cannot do this alone. I have used this before and I will use it now. Our rights as employees are like a foundation of a house. The other things we need are like walls, sheet rock, a roof, etc. There is a certain order in which you do things when you build a house. Right now, the most important thing is the foundation. It does us no good to build a house and hope to pour the foundation at a later date. Our contract allows for re-negotiation of three things on a yearly basis. It takes nothing for one of those issues to be money (and that's usually what it is). The most important item to get is the rights, in writing, in the contract. I would hope that is at least one thing we can all agree on.

Lori

Now, I am very unsure at this point what people actually want because it hasn't been addressed. All I hear is that the FOP isn't doing anything. What exactly do you want to see happen? What end-goal are you looking for? If it's never directly stated, you cannot expect that one is going to read your mind to find out.
Lori


Seeing you shut it would be a great start. You got your name out there, congrats. The horse is dead.

Seeing you shut it would be a great start. You got your name out there, congrats. The horse is dead.[/quote]

My, aren't you the clever **** ? I bet your daddy can beat up my daddy.

Our FOP is such a joke. (Duh). I am going to resign from it so I can save the $40 they take out and can increase whenever they wants. It is obvious if people dont go to meetings there may be a reason why. (Duh). Perhaps some leadership that doesnt kiss admin behinds or state some crap that benefits the president, who is also a jok. (Duh)

STORY OF THE DAY...
BUILD A BRIDGE
AND
GET OVER IT!!

VOTE NO FRIDAY AND CALL THE PBA THEY WILL HELP AND NOT SUCK THE LIFE FROM US

I am voting NO! Somebody get me a PBA card.