Butler: I didn't use influence to skirt ticket

[NewsHound]

PINELLAS PARK — Rick Butler denied he used his influence as a City Council member to avoid being ticketed this month during a police traffic sting.

"If the officer would have presented me with a ticket, I would have signed the ticket," Butler said during Thursday's council meeting. "No, no way have I used any undue influence."

Butler was responding to Pinellas Park resident Randy Heine, a frequent critic of city actions. Heine referred to a news report about a traffic sting designed to catch violators of the state's "move over" law, which requires drivers to slow down and move over, if possible, when approaching an emergency vehicle with its lights flashing.

Pinellas Park police, along with officers from St. Petersburg and St. Pete Beach, had parked an empty car and a police car with its lights flashing at the side of 49th Street N near 80th Avenue. They stopped 226 drivers and issued 200 tickets at $111 each to those who failed to slow. The other 26 drivers were issued warnings. Butler was one of those.

The officer who issued the warning, Sgt. Tracey Schofield, said he would have ticketed Butler had he not been a member of the City Council. Officers have wide discretion in deciding whether to issue a ticket, and police Chief Dorene Thomas said Thursday she felt no need to reprimand Schofield for his decision.

Heine told council members he found Schofield's reasoning to be "troubling."

"I would like to see in the police handbook where it says council persons are exempt from the law," Heine said.

Butler reminded Heine that officers have wide discretion in deciding whether to issue tickets.

"At no time did I ever use my influence as an elected person or say, 'Do you know who I am?' ... If it's the $111 that makes a difference, I'll reach in my pocket right now and put it on the table," Butler said.

Heine never accused Butler of using his influence. Instead, he talked about the unfairness of an officer's giving an elected official a break while 200 others were ticketed.

Butler never had to tell Schofield who he was. Not only is Pinellas Park, which has about 49,000 residents, a fairly small city, but elected officials are well known among city employees. And Schofield has appeared in front of the council several times. The influence came from Schofield's recognizing Butler and using that as his reason for not writing the ticket.

The situation, Heine said, smacked of a double standard in Pinellas Park law enforcement, where elected officials are given breaks while everyday people are not.

Butler, he said, should have asked for a ticket "just to show he's an ordinary person like us."

Heine and others have lodged similar complaints before. They say the city plays favorites. That favoritism, they say, is most obvious at meetings, where speakers who flatter council members and the city are given wide latitude while those who criticize or disagree are held to strict time limits and often treated rudely or insulted. Some have been subjected to diatribes.

Butler, who was driving a new car and not his usual white pickup truck, defended himself for not slowing down, saying he thought it was odd to have an empty police car and another car by the side of the road. He assumed officers had stopped someone who had tried to flee. He wondered if the officer had chased the driver and was involved in a fight.

"I had my cell phone in my hand," Butler said. "I really thought those cops were out there fighting with someone or whatever. And at 35 or 45 mph, by the time I went past it and saw what was in front, I got pulled over. I tell you right now, without a doubt, it was an education for me."

Butler said that in the same situation, he'd likely do the same again.

"Should I just drive by like this wearing blinders, or say I didn't see a thing?" he asked, putting his right hand up against his face. "No, that's not me. ... I'll look and if I see someone in trouble, the stupid part of me will stop and will try to help."

He added, "If that offends anybody in the audience, if that offends the taxpayers, I'm sorry. About three years and six months (from now) you get to do it all again, (and you can) kick my butt out."

Source (http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article789852.ece)

It' would appear that Sgt. T.S. has his own policy on Officer's Descretion. If you are a low life Jail Guard driving through his city and happen te exceed the ridiculous 45Mph on Brian Dairey at 11:00pm LOOK OUT. You will get a lot of attitude and a ticket. Then when you ask who his supervisor is he comes back with the smar aleck response that he doesn't have a Leutenant!!! He answers to the Chief Of Police Of Pinellas Park111 Oh Really T.S. I know you a have a Leutenant and I bet he wouldn't appreciate you denieing that you answer to him.

Then on the other hand if you are a City Council Member and well known to the Sgt, Then you get a FREE PASS!

To me that does not show the best judgement on Sgt. T.S. behalf.

I was under the impression that a large part of the decision of whether to ticket or not was a matter of what the officer felt was required gain compliance to the trafffic infraction.

I can tell you from my experance that if Sgt. T.S. had approached my window and said something to the effect of " Hey you knuckle head, you know better than that. Now slow it down and be safe. I would not have harsh feelings toward him and his agency. Instead he choose to talk down to me and belittle me simply because of my uniform and where I work.

I know you guys are going to come back at me with all kinds of crap. But before you do let me just say this. Most of you don't know me. A few of you do because I have worked with you at the jail. Ask the people who have worked with me if I am normally an easy going guy that gets along with most folks.

Officers like Sgt. T.S. can really rub people the wrong way simply because it is up to his discretion as to whether or not he likes or dislikes you. Than is no way to build good relations and sooner or later it will catch up with you.

There is no doubt what so ever that the City Council Member recieved special treatment. This guy would write a ticket to his own mother.

Well, I ask: "who the he** are you???" You don't even post any possible identifier when you say, "Most of you don't know me. A few of you do because I have worked with you at the jail. Ask the people who have worked with me if I am normally an easy going guy that gets along with most folks. " Here is the real deal there dear citizen, (or who ever you may try to pretend to be), if this certain Sgt. wrote you a citation, you very much deserved that cite, as I am very familiar with this Sgt, and I trust his "descretion" in issuing citations for traffic infractions. So don't come to our board to express your disagreement in the cite you received. You may absolutlely opt for option "3", "plead 'not guilty' and plead your pathetic excuse to the traffic Magistrate/Judge. Good luck though, as Sgt. T.S. does not issue "thin" citations. Please bring your $30.00 in subpoena fees, and the total fine on the cite, as you probably don't have a valid defense for your citation. Next time, obey the traffic laws in my city, and you won't be facing this issue of a citation, because you actually obeyed that speed limit sign!

We know who he is. He is the douche bag detention deputy that wanted to run his mouth and make his own bed. He is the same douche bag detention deputy that told TS in so many words to "just write me the ticket" because he is too good to be told to slow down or be "lectured" as he put it. Those are his own admissions from his earlier posts on our board when he first got the cite. As if that didn't tell you who he was, his sixth grade typing and spelling are like nothing ever seen on this website. Oh, and he did have his day in court. He was the douche bag that was found guilty in front of all of traffic court while PCSO IA detectives were in there to witness how he could further tarnish the star that he has no business wearing.

We've all been pulled over. Some of us many, many times. Nobody is perfect. I have NEVER been cited by another cop, deputy, trooper....ANYONE. But, I have never ran my sewer either. Some were very nice and pleasant. Some were obviously pissed off that they had to pull out and chase me down. But still....not one cite. Hell...I can just imagine what would have happened if I told the last good old boy to "just write me the ticket." Good thing I didn't or perhaps I would have become an illiterate malcontent who only types with two fingers and dreams of one day having a gun to wear with that badge.

Hey douche bag: I don't know who you are, or as much as your name and I did not work in the jail with you. But I will leave you with this. (No, it's not a spellchecker)

** Be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it**

We know who he is. He is the douche bag detention deputy that wanted to run his mouth and make his own bed. He is the same douche bag detention deputy that told TS in so many words to "just write me the ticket" because he is too good to be told to slow down or be "lectured" as he put it. Those are his own admissions from his earlier posts on our board when he first got the cite. As if that didn't tell you who he was, his sixth grade typing and spelling are like nothing ever seen on this website. Oh, and he did have his day in court. He was the douche bag that was found guilty in front of all of traffic court while PCSO IA detectives were in there to witness how he could further tarnish the star that he has no business wearing.

We've all been pulled over. Some of us many, many times. Nobody is perfect. I have NEVER been cited by another cop, deputy, trooper....ANYONE. But, I have never ran my sewer either. Some were very nice and pleasant. Some were obviously pissed off that they had to pull out and chase me down. But still....not one cite. Hell...I can just imagine what would have happened if I told the last good old boy to "just write me the ticket." Good thing I didn't or perhaps I would have become an illiterate malcontent who only types with two fingers and dreams of one day having a gun to wear with that badge.

Hey douche bag: I don't know who you are, or as much as your name and I did not work in the jail with you. But I will leave you with this. (No, it's not a spellchecker)

** Be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it**

Wow. What a friggin' rant, tuff guy. Tracey, you really do need to get over yourself. "Mayor Schofield" just aint gonna happen even though you do like to hob-nob with all them there important politicians in the park :roll:

It' would appear that Sgt. T.S. has his own policy on Officer's Descretion. If you are a low life Jail Guard driving through his city and happen te exceed the ridiculous 45Mph on Brian Dairey at 11:00pm LOOK OUT. You will get a lot of attitude and a ticket. Then when you ask who his supervisor is he comes back with the smar aleck response that he doesn't have a Leutenant!!! He answers to the Chief Of Police Of Pinellas Park111 Oh Really T.S. I know you a have a Leutenant and I bet he wouldn't appreciate you denieing that you answer to him.

Then on the other hand if you are a City Council Member and well known to the Sgt, Then you get a FREE PASS!

To me that does not show the best judgement on Sgt. T.S. behalf.

I was under the impression that a large part of the decision of whether to ticket or not was a matter of what the officer felt was required gain compliance to the trafffic infraction.

I can tell you from my experance that if Sgt. T.S. had approached my window and said something to the effect of " Hey you knuckle head, you know better than that. Now slow it down and be safe. I would not have harsh feelings toward him and his agency. Instead he choose to talk down to me and belittle me simply because of my uniform and where I work.

I know you guys are going to come back at me with all kinds of crap. But before you do let me just say this. Most of you don't know me. A few of you do because I have worked with you at the jail. Ask the people who have worked with me if I am normally an easy going guy that gets along with most folks.

Officers like Sgt. T.S. can really rub people the wrong way simply because it is up to his discretion as to whether or not he likes or dislikes you. Than is no way to build good relations and sooner or later it will catch up with you.

There is no doubt what so ever that the City Council Member recieved special treatment. This guy would write a ticket to his own mother.

Let me clarify a couple of key points for you. 1. Sgt. T.S. does not have an L.T. He supervises our Special Operations Section which is part of our Operations Divison and he reports directly to a Captain. I sincerely doubt he would have told you he reports to the Chief so your credibility is in question. Rest assured you do not have to worry what is LT thinks, it doesn't apply. We appreciate you however looking out for our LT's.

2. If you showed a fraction of the hostility that night that you have shown on this board, I will go out on a limb and say you earned your ticket. We do not need a lecture from a detention deputy (I use that job term out of respect for my brothers and sisters who have come from the jail ranks - I show you none) on what is needed before we issue a ticket. We have been to the academy we know and you lost your court fight, apparently, you do not know as much as you thought.

3. A piece of advice, drive slower through the Park and have a little class, dignity, and respect. Those things you so eagerly wanted shown to you, you must first be willing to give.

Just a few points

#1 I didn't come on your board and call anyone a "Douche Bag"
#2 I didn't stretch the truth or embellish what occurred.
#3 When I saw the overhead lights I pulled off the road as soon as possible, turned on the interrior lights and lowered all windows so the officer could see inside my vehicle and to put him at ease. I sat there with my pie hole shut and listened to the Sgt showing him the same amount of respect I I would hope to receive if the rolls were reversed. I sat there and listend to his condescending comments about "Corrections Officers" untill I felt he had gone to far and crossed the line. There is a limit as to what you should expect someone to listen to. When he crossed the line I told him to write the ticket if he wanted to but he was not going to talk to me like that. I fully expected to get a ticket when I said it. I had just heard enough.
#4 When I asked him for the name of his Lt. he replied that he did not have an Lt. I then asked him for the name of his supervisor and he stated that he answers to the chief of police.

I had never met this man before and did not show him the slightest disrespect untill he crossed the line. Perhaps we disagree on just how far you can go during a traffic stop.

I mean no disrespect to the P.P.P.D. and I did not call anyone names in my post. My point was that what occurred during your sting and what occurred during my traffic stop raised a few eyebrows. The situation could have been handled better.

I showed the Sgt. all the respect any officer deserves. I will take a lecture any day over a ticket but there are limits.

#5 Your right. I lost my case and I paid my fine before leaving the court house. I never thought I had a chance of winning but I had my say in court for whatever that is worth.

By the way, That was my first ticket in 25 years so that might be and indication of my driving habits.

Be Safe Guys, Enough said!

I wasn't going to respond but I changed my mind. First off Sergeant Schofield is one of the best we've got. You know where you stand with him at all times. He holds all of us to the same standard as he holds himself. If you knew anything about chain of command you would know that the LT’s have NO authority over him. He reports to the operations commander. The reason he was moved to his current assignment is because he gets things done. While I respect M.B. it became a boys club and now it is the special unit it was suppose to be. Schofield goes where he is needed and does it quietly. Why? Because that is what expected of all of us. As far as the stupid reason for this topic, IT IS CALLED DISCRECTION. The deputy got the ticket because the sergeant thought it appropriate and the councilperson did not. The reason he didn’t is obvious, and if you say that you would have wrote him makes you an idiot. I would work for Sergeant Schofield all day, every day. There are no games, and no favorites.

Wow, what an incredible disrespect you have for another officer and this profession. You are an embarassment and I hope you are truly not an officer at this agency.

I will work for T.S. and have any day of the week and more importantly, I would go into a fight and risk my life to help him and you because that is our job. You on the other hand, are worthless, a coward, and if you can't say the same, turn in your badge. I fear you are not worthy of that uniform.

To the detention deputy that comes on this board stirring the pot and to our own who claims he things T.S. is dirty. If you have issues with T.S., take your allegations to the appropriate place. (You won't because you are a coward and your feelings are baseless) If you feel T.S. was unprofessional, make a complaint but don't do it on this board, we have no use for you. We all have a hard enough job without the backstabbing cowardly jabs on this website. Did I mention you are cowards.

One last comment. I have alot of respect for detention deputies. It is a job I wouldn't do. However, you know everyone you are around is a criminal and your guard is up. Our jobs are not the same, equal pay does not make the jobs equal. I would not do yours, I have no interest. However, without wearing my shoes, do not pretend to know mine and judge my decisions unless you have worn my shoes. I have discretion in how I do my job, I will excercise it how I see fit within the limits of the law and within my department policy. T.S. and all the rest get to do the same thing. Sorry if you don't like it. Apparently your pride wouldn't let you swallow a lecture, having worked with T.S. and not you, I will take his side.

Just cant stand all of the drama. TS isnt exactly universally loved...just by "his guys." I wonder how he keeps the stripes the way he conducts himself and his decision making. Why the heck would anyone state they gave a person a break because he/she is who they are in life. STUPID. And unfortunately typical of TS.

[MOD 1]

Upon the request of Mod 557 I have reviewed this thread for violations of the Terms of Use. I have removed a number of posts that violated the Terms of Use. These violations were posts that called names, and made allegations disguised as opinion.

Mod 1

:lol: GUESS HE WASN'T ON COUNCIL :lol:


That's the way we roll on mids, take no prisoners!
:cop: :cop: :cop: :cop: :cop: :cop: :cop: :cop:
St. Petersburg cop flees police
PINELLAS PARK – A St. Petersburg police officer allegedly became the bad guy on Aug. 29 when led city police on a chase.

Lee A. Forman, 25, a St. Petersburg patrolman, is charged with fleeing and eluding police. He was booked into the Pinellas County Jail and released. Police said Forman, who was off duty and driving his personal car, was spotted driving about 10 miles over the posted speed limit on Park Boulevard at about 1 a.m. When a Pinellas Park sergeant tried to pull him over, police said, Forman pushed his 1997 Pontiac up to 70 mph and fled. Forman was tracked down through his license number and arrested. Besides the fleeing count he was charged with running a red light. Forman, a midnight patrol officer, was placed on administrative leave pending an internal investigation.