More D4 Write Ups

From what I understand - Folks in District 4 are now being written up for going to the wrong gas pumps (b1 vs deland) after getting out of court on their day off! WTF!

If deputies can take life and liberty, and drive umpteen miles across Deltona because someone wants to tell a deputy about a suspicious vehicle they saw in North Carolina while on vacation over 6 month ago, then why can't a deputy decide which gas pumps to use?

That is sad. That seems to echo what Jeff Candage said a couple of union meetings ago about the discipline being increased. And what recourse does somebody have? Union leaders???

That is sad. That seems to echo what Jeff Candage said a couple of union meetings ago about the discipline being increased. And what recourse does somebody have? Union leaders???

Ummm, fight it?!? What do you think?

First of all, I seriously doubt that anyone was written up for gassing up at any gas pumps. I am NOT pro-admin, but even these knuckleheads wouldn't write you up for that. There is more to the story. Let's hear it.

That is sad. That seems to echo what Jeff Candage said a couple of union meetings ago about the discipline being increased. And what recourse does somebody have? Union leaders???

Ummm, fight it?!? What do you think?

First of all, I seriously doubt that anyone was written up for gassing up at any gas pumps. I am NOT pro-admin, but even these knuckleheads wouldn't write you up for that. There is more to the story. Let's hear it.

There may be more to it, but it would surprise me if there was nothing more to it either. That's how the Sgts in Deltona have been instructed to do their jobs. Management, not leadership.

It is county wide. The only hope is after the election the agency gets back to normal. Although with nobody (sergeants and above) having a backbone it is doubtful.

That is sad. That seems to echo what Jeff Candage said a couple of union meetings ago about the discipline being increased. And what recourse does somebody have? Union leaders???

Ummm, fight it?!? What do you think?

First of all, I seriously doubt that anyone was written up for gassing up at any gas pumps. I am NOT pro-admin, but even these knuckleheads wouldn't write you up for that. There is more to the story. Let's hear it.

There may be more to it, but it would surprise me if there was nothing more to it either. That's how the Sgts in Deltona have been instructed to do their jobs. Management, not leadership.

Well shame on the sergeants in Deltona if they don't have the balls to say "NO!" They don't have to write people up. They can say no and they should. Nonetheless, there is more to this story, I assure you.

Is there more to the story? And I agree with you about the Sergeants getting a pair. Might be nice when the stripes are given to those few sergeants that don't have them for Inventory to issue a pair.

I think I now have the whole story.

Apparently, the deputy went to court in Deland and was going to Deltona afterwards to work a zone. The deputy does not live on the west side and is not familiar with Deland. Somewhere near Kepler, the deputy realized he needed fuel and thought: instead of back tracking to the otehr side of Deland for fuel and driving through all the downtown red lights, he would take US92 to the Daytona pumps and then jump on I4 to make it back to Deltona. The problem occurred when the deputy got held up by a crash on I4 that caused him to be late coming back to Deltona. For this, the deputy caught paper.

From what I read that deputy should not have caught any paper. Shame on the Sergeant for writing him up (or whoever did). That seems like a sad statement of what is happening around here.

From what I read that deputy should not have caught any paper. Shame on the Sergeant for writing him up (or whoever did). That seems like a sad statement of what is happening around here.

I used to think the Sgt's were just going by what the brass told them. But I have learned many district 4 Sgts often encourage the harsher punishments for simple violations. I don't know if it's because they have learned that it is expected of them by the brass, or they are just trying to impress the brass.... Either way, it is often unwarranted. Where is the spirit of teaching deputies the proper way of doing things, leading by example and not trying to screw careers? Documenting shortcomings is one thing - targeting employees with career roadblocks is another.

Many good deputies will never stand a chance at getting hired with some other agencies due to their discipline records at VCSO. Discipline records that should not have half the stuff in them.

There is not that many people that can be deputies in the first place...Don't you think we deserve the benefit of the doubt more often then not. If there is a serious violation, then deal with it. But stuff like formal (permanent) write ups over voice inflections on the radio (first offense) or an OT day that was forgotton about (but the deputy ended up getting it covered) is just uncalled for.

An before you say it, the Union isn't there for anyone when it comes discipline. They might go in the office with you, but they are just going to sit there and do nothing to help you. I know deputies that were unable to even get a call back from the Union rep after numerous request for help with discipline issues. Even if they wanted to help, they have no power.

From what I read that deputy should not have caught any paper. Shame on the Sergeant for writing him up (or whoever did). That seems like a sad statement of what is happening around here.

I used to think the Sgt's were just going by what the brass told them. But I have learned many district 4 Sgts often encourage the harsher punishments for simple violations. I don't know if it's because they have learned that it is expected of them by the brass, or they are just trying to impress the brass.... Either way, it is often unwarranted. Where is the spirit of teaching deputies the proper way of doing things, leading by example and not trying to screw careers? Documenting shortcomings is one thing - targeting employees with career roadblocks is another.

Many good deputies will never stand a chance at getting hired with some other agencies due to their discipline records at VCSO. Discipline records that should not have half the stuff in them.

There is not that many people that can be deputies in the first place...Don't you think we deserve the benefit of the doubt more often then not. If there is a serious violation, then deal with it. But stuff like formal (permanent) write ups over voice inflections on the radio (first offense) or an OT day that was forgotton about (but the deputy ended up getting it covered) is just uncalled for.

An before you say it, the Union isn't there for anyone when it comes discipline. They might go in the office with you, but they are just going to sit there and do nothing to help you. I know deputies that were unable to even get a call back from the Union rep after numerous request for help with discipline issues. Even if they wanted to help, they have no power.

Yours is a powerful post. Leading by example is a forgotten art. And I agree with you completely about the union. From many other postings there is a serious issue with the union. Everybody realizes it. And the only focus was that somebody (who did not sign his name) wanted everybody to sign their name on this site. The union is not performing up to standards. If the union was a deputy they would have enough paper on them right now and would be out of a job.

There seems to be a different set of standards. I guess 5 years ago everybody was perfect. And in the last year or so there is such a level of ineptitude.

We need more Sgt Westfalls.....Come back.

Yeah, It would be great if we had more supervisors like Sgt. Westfall. But he was one of a kind. And since he has left the sheriff’s office, I’m sure he’ll be doing better than any of us that are still here.

It seems there are not many good supervisors in this agency. They are just there to manage from the radio (office usually) and assign responsibility (for discipline) to subordinates when they see an opportunity to make themselves look like they are doing something.

Much of this is the fault of the brass who allows it. Instead of focusing on a single problem deputy or addressing serious violations, they have a knee-jerk reaction and issue a blanket memo or stop everyone from doing a certain thing. The brass tell the Sgt’s to “document, document, document” everything on everyone. This results in outrageous and silly discipline issues that reduce moral and productivity.

But how do you expect employees to be happy when they are constantly denied transfers, constantly disciplined for silly policy violations, or constantly encouraged to do nothing. It clearly seems the sheriff’s office doesn’t want deputies to do anything proactive or self initiated. They only want deputies to respond and take reports after a crime has already occurred. When a deputy does initiate activity, the supervisors pull them off of the call (the suspicious person that’s probably going to break into a house) to respond for a crime that has already occurred (like a bicycle stolen days earlier).

In addition, if a deputy does too much self initiated activity, they magically start getting disciplined, pulled from patrol to do things like writing the daily activity log for the Sgt, doing prisoner transport or something else to keep them from doing real police work. And God forbid a deputy actually have to use force (pepper spray, taser, baton) on a criminal - the whole world ends and focuses on “How can we make sure the agency is not liable in any way and the deputy did everything wrong.”

Moral is at an all time low! And it is not due to call volume, number of personnel, type of calls or just plain being busy. It stems from the lack of on the job training, inability to get answers from Sgt’s who are too inexperienced or unwilling to assist, unreal expectations, erratic or careless discipline, lack of trust and fairness, and extreme micromanagement.

http://forums.leoaffairs.com/viewtopic.php?f=296&t=44994&sid=9b68ca7bbd1ede30f0cecdad3952ea7d



We need a new Sheriff. Morale is at an all time low and he is heavy handed with discipline. He is a huge disappointment.

I have to agree about the morale. I can only speak of the heavy handed discipline I've seen in District 4 where the Sgt's think they are getting ahead and impressing someone by writing up as many deputies as possible. The Lt even sent out an email list of easy things Sgt's could write up deputies for. It seems the agency never backs it's people and is just looking for someone throw under the bus.

Quality Post. There are so many truths in there. The inexperience in leadership has such a disastrous effect on everything. And there does not appear to be an easy solution.

The training thing is another point. Like during the stress shoot. How realistic is it to expect a deputy to shoot off-hand at a "potential" hostage taker holding a hostage. I can see a deputy doing that on the street...NOT.

But with training not really having anything to do I am certain there will be more "realistic" scenarios coming.

And another thing....why is it that one never hears about poor morale on the east side of the county?