VanCee at it again

You supporters of Mr. Puffy should come to some of the rallies. I hear they're getting pretty interesting! VC has now become a desperate man, which is the sign of a loser. All that he has left is lies and mud, which in SRC is the kiss of death for a candidate. I understand from those that attended that he is accusing the SRSO of hiring a pilot for our helo at the tune of $100,000 and that ALL of our ATV's and boats are actually toys of the sheriff. He says they're of no practical use to LE and this coming from a man whose entire LE career has been as a crimestopper coordinator! What pilot? There is no pilot! And it can be easily verified by the media! Idiot! Do you know how the BOCC is looking at this guy! Also that the SRSO has stolen $6 million from the county, taken from the money we get for housing federal inmates! That was the biggest one of them all. By law it has to be turned over to the BOCC. We have no choice! But why get mixed up with the truth, right! Idiot! Don't you guys think that the BOCC incumbents and candidtates KNOW WHERE IT GOES AND ARE THERE LISTENING TO THIS GUY! I understand that the incumbent BOCC guys were just shaking their head in disbelief! Now guys.....your supposed to be pretty smart so put on your thinking hats and imagine what all those incumbent BOCC members and the candidates are thinking when they know the truth and they see Mr. Puffy up there lying and acting the fool. Do you think they're not going to remember that he's already a liar and that whatever he tells them in the future IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED! Do you think that is going to work in our FAVOR! He also told the crowd that Hall "fled the county during Ivan". The BOCC plus all the other county politicians and crowds know he was here so BINGO another lie for the record books on tape! By the way......remember from your rookie days at the academy when we were taught that once the lie is on tape YOU CAN'T RETRACT IT! And BY THE WAY he never was directly responsible for no $5 million budget. They're called "committees" that he was on. He had no direct responsibility for the crime stopper budget! Another lie. And the saddest bit of all is that he is having Dale Cranford (sp), a fired ECSO deputy arrested by SRSO, walking the neighborhoods bad mouthing the SRSO and our detectives, all for the chance of getting on with the SRSO. A felon who just finished up his probation for DVI and Aggravated Stalking and that is with SIX ACTS OF VIOLATING HIS DVI! He'll make a great chief deputy boys! But I was proud to hear that Hall confronted Mr. Puffy afterwards face to face and man to man behind the building and told him to HIS FACE that he was a liar. At least Hall was man enough (although two feet shorter and 200 pounds lighter than Puffy) to confront him face to face, which Puffy can't do, and I hear Mr. Puffy actually took a step backwards from Hall. Score one for Hall. But its a lot easier to be brave when you have truth on your side. No wonder Mr. Puffy had to take a step backwards! Boys we better take a hard look at this one. This guy is over the edge and if you believe the stories then go to the rallies and HEAR IT FOR YOURSELF!

I went to the rally and you're right on!

I'm amazed that Hall stood up to anyone. Its a first. Mark it on your callendar, it won't happen again in our lifetimes. What losers.

Your right VanCee and his group are losers.

I'm surprised that most of the words in the opening rant were spelled correctly.
Super simple question (and I try to keep them simple for the folks who like to rant).

2001 17 million
2007 34 million

Deputies=????

Ok, I'll make this easy for those of you who seem to confuse retyping emails for posting as opposed to making choices and decisions.

I will ignore the fewer deputies on the road and lets just average it at 200.

17 million / 200 = 85,000
34 million /200 = 170,000

Starting deputy salary = 29,500

before somebody yells about support staff, what i am presenting is what is called "loaded" cost. no capital, just expense. support staff rolled in.

instead of "where's the beef", "where's the money?"

Speaking of ranting you must be the King of Rant! What are you saying through all of your BS? R U saying that the SRSO budget has increased over eight years? Duh! Yes it has! R U saying that the deputies salaries have increased from 22,000 to 29,000 over the last eight years? Duh they have!

Oh I'm sorry I forgot that all sheriff's in Florida just walk into the BOCC meetings and DEMAND more money and the BOCC gives it to them. Somehow I must have missed that class in Political Science!

Maybe Hall doesn't yell loud enough to the BOCC because that ALWAYS gets you MO MONEY doesn't it?

Maybe VanCee will be able to go up before the BOCC and tell them he wants more money and after his recent display of lying they'll be sure to give it to him.....NO QUESTIONS ASKED, right!

Get really buddy!

guest,
i get to be king of rant?
ok. weak arguments on your part. i expected as such.

so loaded cost doubles but deputy salary goes up 7000.

A 24% increase in salary over 8 years. a 100% increase in budget over 8 years.

i don't rant, i present facts. i don't need to rant simply because i'm intellectually capable of presenting an argument in a form that doesn't require insulting another man. that is how men handle things.

Just a simple question; when has Hall followed through with any promise to the deputies? He talks the talk but never walks the walk. All he cares about is his ring of butt kissers that succeed in keeping him in the dark about the problems within the agency.
When has Hall gone to talk to the troops? Answer, only when something is going bad for him. He has no idea what is going on with his people. The reason, he doesn't care about his people. Its just that simple. As for VanCamp or Randle, they will probably do the same thing. The all get drunk with power. Hall may never sober up.

Then why don't you present an intellectual argument then. Let's go through basic math again for you shall we.....

You're saying that all deputies earn 29,000 including majors, captains, lts, sergeants, detention corporals all up and down the line and that comes to 170,000 of our 34 million budget (you need to do your homework its 30 million by the way)! Fraid so bud and I too expected as much!

Now out of that 30 million can you think of anything that might take up a large portion of that other than salaries.....right!.....you're doing good.....now subtract that also from the 30 million. Now lets go a little further Mr. Facts lets take medical, retirement, gas, etc. and subtract from that as well. Let's also add in the 2.5 cola's, merit increases etc. Oh by the way "brain trust" Hall kept those two in our budget and REFUSED to take them out to the BOCC but i don't want you to give him any credit Mr. Facts because you may be accused of being a suck up right and Lord knows we wouldn't that to happen!

Nobody cares whether you vote for VanCee or Hall, that's up to you but why don't you deal with those facts your throwing around and get off you whining political high horse!

You supporters of Mr. Puffy should come to some of the rallies. I hear they're getting pretty interesting! VC has now become a desperate man, which is the sign of a loser. All that he has left is lies and mud, which in SRC is the kiss of death for a candidate. I understand from those that attended that he is accusing the SRSO of hiring a pilot for our helo at the tune of $100,000 and that ALL of our ATV's and boats are actually toys of the sheriff. He says they're of no practical use to LE and this coming from a man whose entire LE career has been as a crimestopper coordinator! What pilot? There is no pilot! And it can be easily verified by the media! Idiot! Do you know how the BOCC is looking at this guy! Also that the SRSO has stolen $6 million from the county, taken from the money we get for housing federal inmates! That was the biggest one of them all. By law it has to be turned over to the BOCC. We have no choice! But why get mixed up with the truth, right! Idiot! Don't you guys think that the BOCC incumbents and candidtates KNOW WHERE IT GOES AND ARE THERE LISTENING TO THIS GUY! I understand that the incumbent BOCC guys were just shaking their head in disbelief! Now guys.....your supposed to be pretty smart so put on your thinking hats and imagine what all those incumbent BOCC members and the candidates are thinking when they know the truth and they see Mr. Puffy up there lying and acting the fool. Do you think they're not going to remember that he's already a liar and that whatever he tells them in the future IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED! Do you think that is going to work in our FAVOR! He also told the crowd that Hall "fled the county during Ivan". The BOCC plus all the other county politicians and crowds know he was here so BINGO another lie for the record books on tape! By the way......remember from your rookie days at the academy when we were taught that once the lie is on tape YOU CAN'T RETRACT IT! And BY THE WAY he never was directly responsible for no $5 million budget. They're called "committees" that he was on. He had no direct responsibility for the crime stopper budget! Another lie. And the saddest bit of all is that he is having Dale Cranford (sp), a fired ECSO deputy arrested by SRSO, walking the neighborhoods bad mouthing the SRSO and our detectives, all for the chance of getting on with the SRSO. A felon who just finished up his probation for DVI and Aggravated Stalking and that is with SIX ACTS OF VIOLATING HIS DVI! He'll make a great chief deputy boys! But I was proud to hear that Hall confronted Mr. Puffy afterwards face to face and man to man behind the building and told him to HIS FACE that he was a liar. At least Hall was man enough (although two feet shorter and 200 pounds lighter than Puffy) to confront him face to face, which Puffy can't do, and I hear Mr. Puffy actually took a step backwards from Hall. Score one for Hall. But its a lot easier to be brave when you have truth on your side. No wonder Mr. Puffy had to take a step backwards! Boys we better take a hard look at this one. This guy is over the edge and if you believe the stories then go to the rallies and HEAR IT FOR YOURSELF!

REPLY TO ABOVE COMMENT:
He stated at the GB rally and he said that the ATV's, Boats and other items used for law enforcement were "toys" of the Sheriff. Also, he stated at that time he would also get rid of the helicopter because it wasn't necessary and should never have been purchased. Does VC not realize that the helio was given to SRSO and SRSO has not had the $$$$ to buy fuel, so it is parked in a rent free facility until $$$$ come available. VC! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU OPEN MOUTH AND INSERT FOOT!

How does VC expect to run a sheriff's office when he can't pass a sergeant exam (even cheating he flunked!) -- missed out 11 times and the last one was just in the past couple months. Wow! Some one needs to pull a public records request and see the other things that are in Lord Humongous (sp), aka Mr. Puffy, aka Jeff VanCamp ECSO file. Some good readin'.

Mr. Puffy has a convicted felon working for him to get votes? that is what SRSO needs a felon in upper management.

Also check on what the people who have been on the Crime Stoppers board have thought about VC. I know of one person who saw him go into a rage after a conference meeting was over. No one knew why.

Why was VC banned from teaching Little League Ball? Why was he told to leave Little League Ball Games? I BELIEVE IT WAS HIS TEMPER.

Also, the word on the street is that if VC became Sheriff --- his wife would be running the SRSO. Another Bill & Hillary?

All I can say is that, Sheriff Hall is not perfect, but none of us are. We all make mistakes. I disagree with who is in upper management, but you can only use what is available and they are all he has, what with Civil Service & Seniority tying his hands.

guest.
i like how you pick your facts. you should run for congress.....
"LOADED" cost includes everything.
I said 29000 for starters (if not, then oops, i was typing fast).

AVERAGE is the 170,000. AVERAGE loaded for ALL costs.

Obviously you've never run a business. The product is deputies, the cost per year based on budget is $34 million. If giving back 4 million is a virtue, then i'd ask a real deputy how they feel about it.

I'm not going to bother arguing w/somebody who doesn't understand budgets.

jasyn (i meant "j5").....stay off our site. no one cares to hear what you have to say.

sr too
barking up the wrong tree there.

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. 3 million for more jail space to house federal prisoners, and they are building a federal jail in the area to house 2000 federal prisoners. Do you think we will recoup the money at $49 a head.
Santa Rosa Deputies make $61512.80 per year with benefits as told to the BOCC by Hall. The average salary in Santa Rosa is $ 32000. Would you give a raise?

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. 3 million for more jail space to house federal prisoners, and they are building a federal jail in the area to house 2000 federal prisoners. Do you think we will recoup the money at $49 a head.
Santa Rosa Deputies make $61512.80 per year with benefits as told to the BOCC by Hall. The average salary in Santa Rosa is $ 32000. Would you give a raise?

Hall is either a bigger fool than I gave him credit for or you are not telling the truth. As I know that Hall is a fool, I also believe that you are not telling the truth. Not one person with more than one active brain cell would believe that deputies are making anything near 61K a year, even with benefits. Go bark up another tree or hump someone elses leg.

jasyn (i meant "j5").....stay off our site. no one cares to hear what you have to say.

Hey Sr too; What intimidation in your name. Scares me.

Just for your info Hall was asked to explain to the BOCC the cost for the Transportation unit. He sent an e-mail stating the unit had 5 deputies that cost the department $307,564.32 with benefits!

$307,564.32 divded by 5 equals $61,512.86. Good pay for a small county.

So was this a lie to the BOCC or are y'all really making this kind of money?

Just for your info Hall was asked to explain to the BOCC the cost for the Transportation unit. He sent an e-mail stating the unit had 5 deputies that cost the department $307,564.32 with benefits!

$307,564.32 divded by 5 equals $61,512.86. Good pay for a small county.

So was this a lie to the BOCC or are y'all really making this kind of money?

That is the cost for the "unit". That includes supervision, vehicles, supplies, gas and the material to keep it running--to include deputies. You cant just divide that amount of this unit by 5 and get the general amount a deputy makes each year. Thats moronic. I guess one could say that the jail costs 3 million a year to run and the sheriff cuts the manpower to three, thus each person makes a million a year. Sounds like your kind of math.

Wow, i've never seen so many people that just can't get the facts right. What part of "salaries are not the whole budget" do y'all not get? And its not $34 million its $30, can y'all not read!

Have you ever gotten a copy of the budget and read it? Have you ever really looked into what you're talking about? Now in your defense budgets are written by accountants for accountants and the common man has a really rough time deciphering them! But give it a try then come back and try discussing the issue!

Some of you don't like Hall so you're just gonna beat him up no matter what he says or does. We call that "opinionated" because you accept no facts except those that you like. Sorta of a "buffet" bullshi#$%! Sort of a mule with blinders on! That's what you remind me of.

I don't care if you like Hall or not that doesn't mean you can't look at the facts. Turn in your badge and gun, if you're even a deputy at all, because you're not much of one. Deputies are suppose to deal with facts, inside and outside of court. If you are a deputy then I like to look at the cases you've worked in the past!

Your right! Someone isn't reading the budget or doesn't know what they're reading. When you discuss budgets you have to take the deputy's salary and add all benefits to come to a total of that deputies financial worth. That's how its done guys. When you figure in lay offs you have to total the salary and benefits to determine how much is being deducted from the SRSO budget. Guest is right, why can't y'all figure that out unless you just want to gripe. Is deputies salaries too low? Absolutely! Hall knows it and has told everyone including the BOCC that it is. But that's like a teenager telling his parents that they better increase his weekly allowance OR ELSE! I'm sure the teenager's parents are shaking in their boots!

Here are the Transportation Statistics from Sheriff Hall's Office:

There are 5 detention deputies in the transportation unit and their salaries plus benefits equal $307,564.32. There are 5 vehicles utilized for transport of approximately 3,530 inmates. Miles driven are approximately 37,800.

Vehicle Cost:

Maintenance - $2,886.30
Fuel Cost - $4,737.70
Total - $7,623.90

Of the 37,800 miles travelled approximately 10,000 were transporting inmates to and from the courthouse or 26.45% equaling $2,016.52 of the total.

The transportation unit also transports to the following: medical and Psychiatric doctor appointments. Pick up inmates within neighboring counties with warrant holds for our county. Transport inmates to prison (high risk, medical issues). Transport to Juevenile Detention Center in Escambia. Judges can order to transport for court appearance in neighboring counties and doctor appointments.

The number of transportation detention deputies and/or vehicles will not be changed by moving the judicial complex.

Must be nice to actually get more than a 2 page overview spreadsheet when asking the SRCSO for budget information. I guess being on the inside helps.

LOADED means EVERYTHING. It is a generic average that includes all of the above from all of the posts. It includes the cars, the maint, everything else.

Load doubled, service declined.

If you think for one minute there will be a huge vacuum at Escambia IF Jeff were to win, you are soooooooooooo wrong.

looks like wfcc let one escape.

Escape threw the roof !

[DDG]

Escape threw the roof !
Another fine product of the Public School System......

DDG
What does that stand for?
"Deputy Donut Gobbler" or maybe "Deputy **** Gobbler" !!!!
I will tell you one thing I can spell and that is Kicking that ASS !!! Leave your real name you Fag...
I can spell kick that ass all day long *****!




How about that from Public School!

[DDG]

DDG
What does that stand for?
"Deputy Donut Gobbler" or maybe "Deputy **** Gobbler" !!!!
I will tell you one thing I can spell and that is Kicking that ASS !!! Leave your real name you Fag...
I can spell kick that ass all day long *****!




How about that from Public School! So when I point out that you can’t spell, you want to resort to violence and it brings out your Homophobia????.. Hmmmm, maybe you are just trying to conceal the fact that you have secret Man-on-Man thoughts???? You are such a cyber tough guy.... you lil savage!!!

DDG
What does that stand for?
"Deputy Donut Gobbler" or maybe "Deputy **** Gobbler" !!!!
I will tell you one thing I can spell and that is Kicking that ASS !!! Leave your real name you Fag...
I can spell kick that ass all day long *****!




How about that from Public School!


Dude you need to chill out. DDG's got opinions like everybody else on here, even if they are wrong. He may be the one thats saving your ass one day when you're getting it kicked. I'll be glad when the 27th is here and everybody can start *****ing about something else besides election

i'm going to ignore the clown guy who likes donuts or boys (i'm not sure which).
yes, everybody has their choice, opinion, and right to vote.
what disappoints me is the fact that so many supporters of other candidates feel so threatened that they feel the need to bully supporters or call names or act like children in a schoolyard.

yes, i support jeff.
i don't feel that supporting jeff requires that i degrade the other men who are running.
i also am polite when i meet the other supporters.

a group of randle supporters greeted a van camp supporter who walked up by yelling "how does it feel to be a loser?". that lacks class and is a reflection of the values of the campaign. i bumped into mrs. randle at the hot dog line and i introduced myself and held a polite conversation for a minute or so. i've met chris roper and talked to him and he knew i was a van camp supporter but he showed class. wendall wouldn't even shake my hand.....

go out and meet jeff. he is polite and respectful to EVERYBODY he meets. he might not like that your shirt says "vote for...." but he isn't going to call you a loser or ignore you. he will introduce himself and answer your questions and invite you to learn more via his website.

jeff's supporters are always polite, respectful, and willing to answer questions. they work hard because they believe in what they are doing. his group isn't a bar gathering clique or a group of people who won't go out and shake hands.

Knowing many of the Randle supports, I seriously doubt they ever said anything like that... If that's the case, then the person they said it to needs to call Randle at 982-9152 and tell him about it... It's ridiculous and yet another attempt at the Van Camp people trying to make Randle look bad, and when they're asked to substantiate the claim, they won't. Thank goodness this will all be over with in 9 days.

you may seriously doubt it but i was standing there and heard it. bagdad fire department. 5 women standing together wearing bright yellow randle t-shirts.
it isn't any attempt by van camp to make randle look bad. his supporters did it all by themselves.

it is all about who you surround yourself with. they reflect.....

Van Camp is the David Morgan of Santa Rosa County.

guest.
that makes no sense...
first you say that nothing is substantiated. so i tell you that flat out, i heard it and the only response is yet another slam/slur....
you ignore that i said that i had a very nice conversation w/randle's wife.
you ignore everything except what you want to twist.... typical of small minds that need to be spoon fed.....

Who said it was the same person posting as guest? But I agree that Van Camp is the David Morgan of Santa Rosa County. He has gotten this far thinking he could become Sheriff because some people (read: people looking for jobs at a new SRSO because they can't get one now) have told him he could, and he believed them. They whisper in his ear, "Jeff, you're doing great... You're winning... You can do this!" I don't know what's wrong with him lately but he has seemed very scatterbrained. Maybe it's the people he's surrounding himself with... who knows. Maybe the pressure that he's beginning to realize that people see he's unqualified to be Sheriff... He was touting that he'd start a cybercrime unit at the SO to protect our children, until he found out we've had one for a several years... I'm not sure who's advising him on what to say, but he needs some note cards and new people. Of course, at this point it's too late. With the PNJ article bashing him, it coming out that he failed a polygraph about the harassment, accusations that he cheated on a Sergeant's test and still couldn't ever pass it, the Sheriff in Escambia County doing all he can to derail him just out of spite, his utter lack of qualifications (sorry but "I ran Crimestoppers and wrote a bill with the Governor" doesn't qualify you to run anything but Crimestoppers) and his stumbling lately, he needs to stay at home on next Tuesday night and iron his uniform for work on Wednesday. Don't turn that cruiser in yet, Jeffrey. I'm sure the boys on the beach would love to see you go, but it just ain't gonna happen.

Who said it was the same person posting as guest? But I agree that Van Camp is the David Morgan of Santa Rosa County. He has gotten this far thinking he could become Sheriff because some people (read: people looking for jobs at a new SRSO because they can't get one now) have told him he could, and he believed them. They whisper in his ear, "Jeff, you're doing great... You're winning... You can do this!" I don't know what's wrong with him lately but he has seemed very scatterbrained. Maybe it's the people he's surrounding himself with... who knows. Maybe the pressure that he's beginning to realize that people see he's unqualified to be Sheriff... He was touting that he'd start a cybercrime unit at the SO to protect our children, until he found out we've had one for a several years... I'm not sure who's advising him on what to say, but he needs some note cards and new people. Of course, at this point it's too late. With the PNJ article bashing him, it coming out that he failed a polygraph about the harassment, accusations that he cheated on a Sergeant's test and still couldn't ever pass it, the Sheriff in Escambia County doing all he can to derail him just out of spite, his utter lack of qualifications (sorry but "I ran Crimestoppers and wrote a bill with the Governor" doesn't qualify you to run anything but Crimestoppers) and his stumbling lately, he needs to stay at home on next Tuesday night and iron his uniform for work on Wednesday. Don't turn that cruiser in yet, Jeffrey. I'm sure the boys on the beach would love to see you go, but it just ain't gonna happen.

We already have one with little qualifications that has surrounded himself with yes-boys, and he also came from across the river. Dont need another. Hall will get re-elected and his yes-boys will continue to run the agency. We do not need to go from worthless to incompetent with another sheriff from across the river. We will just have to get through this administration. Maybe sometime in the future the voters will see Hall for what he really is and vote him out of office, but not htis election. Sorry.

Who is the Green Hornet? Is that VanCamps old wrestling name?

Who said it was the same person posting as guest? But I agree that Van Camp is the David Morgan of Santa Rosa County. He has gotten this far thinking he could become Sheriff because some people (read: people looking for jobs at a new SRSO because they can't get one now) have told him he could, and he believed them. They whisper in his ear, "Jeff, you're doing great... You're winning... You can do this!" I don't know what's wrong with him lately but he has seemed very scatterbrained. Maybe it's the people he's surrounding himself with... who knows. Maybe the pressure that he's beginning to realize that people see he's unqualified to be Sheriff... He was touting that he'd start a cybercrime unit at the SO to protect our children, until he found out we've had one for a several years... I'm not sure who's advising him on what to say, but he needs some note cards and new people. Of course, at this point it's too late. With the PNJ article bashing him, it coming out that he failed a polygraph about the harassment, accusations that he cheated on a Sergeant's test and still couldn't ever pass it, the Sheriff in Escambia County doing all he can to derail him just out of spite, his utter lack of qualifications (sorry but "I ran Crimestoppers and wrote a bill with the Governor" doesn't qualify you to run anything but Crimestoppers) and his stumbling lately, he needs to stay at home on next Tuesday night and iron his uniform for work on Wednesday. Don't turn that cruiser in yet, Jeffrey. I'm sure the boys on the beach would love to see you go, but it just ain't gonna happen.


Let's hope that he doesn't hire back the former LT who got booted by Hall for porking his subordinates and getting them preggers.

Who said it was the same person posting as guest? But I agree that Van Camp is the David Morgan of Santa Rosa County. He has gotten this far thinking he could become Sheriff because some people (read: people looking for jobs at a new SRSO because they can't get one now) have told him he could, and he believed them. They whisper in his ear, "Jeff, you're doing great... You're winning... You can do this!" I don't know what's wrong with him lately but he has seemed very scatterbrained. Maybe it's the people he's surrounding himself with... who knows. Maybe the pressure that he's beginning to realize that people see he's unqualified to be Sheriff... He was touting that he'd start a cybercrime unit at the SO to protect our children, until he found out we've had one for a several years... I'm not sure who's advising him on what to say, but he needs some note cards and new people. Of course, at this point it's too late. With the PNJ article bashing him, it coming out that he failed a polygraph about the harassment, accusations that he cheated on a Sergeant's test and still couldn't ever pass it, the Sheriff in Escambia County doing all he can to derail him just out of spite, his utter lack of qualifications (sorry but "I ran Crimestoppers and wrote a bill with the Governor" doesn't qualify you to run anything but Crimestoppers) and his stumbling lately, he needs to stay at home on next Tuesday night and iron his uniform for work on Wednesday. Don't turn that cruiser in yet, Jeffrey. I'm sure the boys on the beach would love to see you go, but it just ain't gonna happen.


Let's hope that he doesn't hire back the former LT who got booted by Hall for porking his subordinates and getting them preggers.

No that would have been Randle who was going to bring him back.

No that would have been Randle who was going to bring him back.

Oh that's complete BS and you know it.