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06-17-2008, 06:27 AM
NMB Needs to go FRS like these other cities and tell the city manager he can pound sand!!!! We dont need Him!!!! WE NEED FRS and NMB will be alot better!!!! LOOk BELOW!!!!

In Miami Beach, where the city is considering cutting the number of firefighters on duty each shift, a typical police officer can retire after 23 years with more than $72,000 in annual pension benefits.

In Hollywood, where residents could be facing higher ambulance fees and a four-day workweek for City Hall, retired firefighters just received $26,000 bonus checks thanks to a provision in their pension contracts.

City leaders throughout South Florida -- serving on the very bodies that made these payouts possible over the years -- are now taking aim at disparities like these as they grapple with big budget holes and pension payouts growing far faster than government bottom lines.

As budget season hits crunch time, the pension battle could emerge as a bruising fight pitting various city halls against retirees and politically powerful unions.

Political leaders say rough economic times require immediate action.

''By taking up more and more of the budget, you actually have less and less for the citizens,'' said Hollywood Commissioner Beam Furr, who has pushed for reform and become the target of union political attacks. ``We have to get a handle on that as quickly as possible because right now it's not sustainable.''

While pensions have disappeared from large sections of the private sector, government employees -- most notably firefighters and police officers -- have seen their retirement benefits balloon as city leaders agreed to approve plush pensions in exchange for short-term salary savings.

As a result, local government employees, police officers and firefighters in many South Florida cities can retire in their 50s on close to their full salaries.

Some retirees get supplemental checks as their pension funds rise. That's how retired Hollywood firefighters pocketed $26,000 checks this spring -- a pension provision fire union representatives say they are willing to reexamine this year.

County governments in Broward and Miami-Dade have largely been spared from skyrocketing pension costs through their participation in the state's larger, more stable retirement system. But for cities running their own pension funds, the costs have been enormous.

COSTS QUADRUPLED

In Fort Lauderdale, the city's pension costs have more than quadrupled since 2000, more than three times the overall general fund budget hike of 87 percent.

It's the same story in Miami, where pension costs peaked at close to $79 million two years ago -- almost four times the cost in 2000 -- before city officials began working with unions to get the numbers under control.

''Long term it would have been detrimental to the city's financial health to sustain that,'' said Larry Spring, Miami's chief financial officer. ``If we were to have maintained that for the next five years, we probably would have had to reduce some staffing and do some serious cutting back.''

In Pembroke Pines, the city borrowed more than $90 million between 2003 and 2004 to pay for improved pensions that allow uniformed employees to retire after 20 years on 80 percent of their working salaries.

In some spots nationally, mushrooming pensions have helped sink the budget. Vallejo, Calif., near San Francisco, declared bankruptcy in May when it could no longer pay for its union contracts.

''It's absolutely not sustainable,'' Fort Lauderdale Mayor Jim Naugle said of the pension status quo.

What caused pension costs to skyrocket?

City and union leaders disagree about who's to blame, but pension experts cite a combination of tough economic times, powerful unions and votes by city officials who bank on union support during election season.

In the late 1990s, the strong market allowed some cities to reduce their pension contributions while continuing to receive a good return, said Keith Brainard, research director of the National Association of State Retirement Administrators.

Some cities also approved expanded pension benefits during the market's upswing, he said.

But when the economy faltered, those pension funds took a hit. Cities were still on the hook.

In older cities, like Fort Lauderdale, those funds must support a larger number of retirees, while the number of active employees -- who also help contribute to the fund -- stays the same. Cities are left to make up the difference.

''It's kind of like a pyramid,'' explained Lynn Wenguer, Fort Lauderdale's police and fire pension fund administrator. ``The ones at the bottom support the ones at the top, but if your top is growing and your bottom is not, it's going to cost more.''

State law generally prohibits cities from taking away pension benefits they have already approved, but city leaders have been looking at other solutions.

In Fort Lauderdale, new general employees will have retirement plans more like the 401(k) plans common in the private sector, where employees contribute most of the money, said Dave Desmond, Fort Lauderdale's general employee pension fund administrator. Those changes will save the city an estimated $100 million over 30 years.

A similar plan has yet to gain ground with the city's police and fire unions. But recent negotiations ended with an agreement to reduce maximum city contributions, saving Fort Lauderdale an estimated $2.2 million.

Miami-Dade localities including North Bay Village, Florida City and Sunny Isles Beach have recently reached agreements with police unions to move from city-run pension funds into the state's retirement system, said John Rivera, president of the Dade County Police Benevolent Association.

STATE SYSTEM

Statewide, about 20 cities have moved some of their employees into the fund since July 2007, said Cathy Smith, bureau chief of enrollment and contributions for the state's Division of Retirement.

At a budget retreat in May, city officials in Miami Beach also discussed moving their employees into the state retirement system.

''It's by far the healthiest pension system that we're aware of; it's a huge pool of people,'' Rivera said. ``It's just a lot less headaches.''

But pension reform can trigger bruising political battles.

Police and fire unions provide coveted endorsements in city elections and their support often comes with campaign donations and an army of volunteers ready to wave signs and greet voters.

After Hollywood's January election, union leaders who backed a losing candidate against Furr filed two ethics complaints against the commissioner, alleging he improperly used two sick days to campaign. Furr called it political payback.

In Hollywood, where union negotiations began in May, the city faces a $14.2 million budget deficit. Yet unions have said they shouldn't be a target and that drastic change could force workers to flee.

''If you want us to remain competitive, you have to pay for wages and benefits,'' said Russ Chard, a representative for Hollywood's fire union. ``If you suddenly say that you can go work here for this other department and have a compensation package worth 10 or 20 times more, what do you think is going to happen?''

But those answers won't sit well with cities looking at layoffs and deep service cuts.

''We're in a jam and we're in it together,'' said Paul Ryder, representing Hollywood in negotiations with the city's general employee unions. ``If the costs are out of control and the taxpayers are demanding relief, we're looking to negotiate something that can provide them relief. . . . Should I report back that your response is that it's not your problem?''

06-17-2008, 11:16 AM
Totally Agree ! We would get an instant raise w/o contributing the money to our pension and it ( FRS) is in a lot better shape than ours. But what would the city do.. like years ago when they took our money from the pension and didnt pay it ALL back.. hmm AL or Art ! Tell Us what happened before its too late !

06-17-2008, 03:30 PM
FRS is not cracked up to be what you think it is. First of all, you would have to work FIVE years longer in the FRS system than you do now. That is five years of drop time in our system that you would miss. Do the math on that. You will put a lot more money in the drop than you would by saving the 10.5 %. Not too mention that you would have to do 30 years as a cop to earn 5 years of drop pay. The FRS allows you to choose between the guaranteed state money or you can do the money plan and manage your own retirement account. The track record for most cops being able to manage their own money is not very good, so take the self managed money plan for what it is. Do your 20 years here, go into the drop and take the 10.5% that you are know longer having to contribute and put it into a money plan. You will do a lot better than going into the FRS. Simple math.

06-17-2008, 06:50 PM
I will take my 10.5% money now, invest it myself and take the free FRS guaranteed no worry plan. Much more solvent than NMB and I dont need to worry about what the City is doing with our money. So you are saying cops cant invest.. I beg to differ, let me invest my 10.5% now that would be an instant raise when needed now. Let us make the choice ! Plus FRS contributes something money wise to insurance !

06-17-2008, 08:01 PM
What would the officers do that have lets say 10 or more years? Could they continue to contribute their 10.5% and retire at the same time or would they be forced to enter the FRS and retire 5 years later? I know for the newer guys, it's easy, switch over to the FRS and dont worry about the contributions. Vinny, lets look into this. Is it up to us or the city, I'm sure the city would put in their two-cents if they could not "steal" I mean use our money.

06-17-2008, 08:27 PM
Over the 20 years here you will contribute a minimum of $150,000.00. and you will retire in 20 years with only 60%. Or you can go to FRS... contribute 0%, buy four years of your time for 40,000.00 and retire after 21 years... Hmmmmmm... lets see.. you do one year extra.. save over 110,000 in contributions and retire with 75%..Oh by the way.. off duty and overtime is included in the pension..... Whatever SEEEEEEAAAAAAAA Donkey thinks our pension is better.. they are just retarted... Everyone will be able to buy four years easily when they get the money back out of the city pension.... Alot of cities are going FRS.... Coral Gables is about to do it now... Miami BEach is looking in to it... Sunny isles, Floriday City, and Noth Bay Village did it already... PENSION BOARD PLEASE SEE WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO GO TO FRS... MAYBE OLD TIMERS CAN HAVE AN OPTION TO STAY IN THE CITY PENSION.. AND OTHERS CAN GO TO FRS.....

06-17-2008, 08:38 PM
Finally, some agreement that makes sense ! This may actually make many people happy especially with a 10.5% raise. All those other details can be worked out ref old pension. Hey Al can I here about the payout back to NMB or are you taking that with you ! Plus lets not forget the HUGE payouts to the small amount of fire guys and the hidden law suit they settled on ! Yes pension board, what about those things ?

06-18-2008, 04:16 AM
The Fire Money and Police Money are completely seperate monies. Once the last Fireman Dies that will be it. They are able to get the extra money because there are so few of them and they have excess $$$$$ which cannot be used on the Police side.

06-18-2008, 11:20 AM
Stop skirting the issue, what was with the law suit about the pension and fire issues . The payouts are incredible ! Also I have not seen one documentaion that shows the City paid back the money they took from our pension. Come on AL speak up before its to late. The new guys have no clue about the vast amount of money taken from our pension by the city and they were ordered to pay it back. So where and when was that done ? That is our money to be used for our benefits !

06-19-2008, 01:24 AM
One more thing about the FRS which completely should put an end to the FRS arguement. The state has already advised that they would only give us 2% for each year earned under our NMB pension. That is the same amount that they pay to civilians. It is all about math.

06-19-2008, 01:37 AM
I would like to see that in writing about the 2%.. is this something new or did you just pull it out of your hat ? I have never heard that before with any agency including those who have transfered over recently! I would think if that was true we would have heard about it from other agencies. So if you have the correct info please post it or put it in our mailboxes! Better yet why doesnt the pension office do a monthly newsletter to all ! What else does he do ? Tired of paying 10.5% and looking elsewhere !

06-19-2008, 11:18 PM
just leave more overtime for me

06-21-2008, 09:40 PM
Some of you have been inquiring about the Florida Retirement System (FRS) and how would it work if we switched from or city pension (N.M.B. Police & Fire pension system) to the FRS.

1) Our pension would not change, the city could decide to offer new police officers the FRS pension and not the city pension. Our plan would become a Closed Plan and everyone currently in it would receive the same benefits you have today.

2) Some officers who are not currently vested could be offered to switch over to FSR, BUT, and this comes with a big but, under Florida Statue 121.0515 (5) and subsection (a) a city that elects to join the FRS would be allowed to offer officers credit for past services (this would have a cost, most likely whatever money you currently have in the pension plan) under special risk at 2% per year of prior service. So, for example, if you currently have 10 years under our plan you currently have 30% credited to your pension, (3% per year X 10 years of service). If we added FRS to our city this officer could choose to remain in our plan or switch over to FRS and he/she would have 20% credited to their pension, (2% per year X 10 years). So you could see that for an officer with more then two or three years of service this would not be a good deal.

The above is straight from the horse's mouth and should end the FRS arguement. Not too mention, Miami Dade PD is one of the few FRS plans that allow for OT and Off duties to be contributed to their retirement plan. Remember that probably 90% of the agencies on the state plan are not even allowed to make over time, much less have it count towards FRS. So Guest LEO 2, take a hike and go cry else where you little beeotch!