City Officers with Guns in Courthouses

http://www.tampabays10.com/video/news/? ... &sid=80376 (http://www.tampabays10.com/video/news/?aid=61641&sid=80376)

Way to go Chief Aradi and Chief Klein. Also thank you to Channel 10 for reporting the truth. The truth is this is nothing more than the Sheriff's attempting to flex his muscle. We receive the same training as PCSO. Our inability to carry our weapons in court is a slap in the face to all municipal officers. The two people doing the slapping are the Chief Judge and the Sheriff. I am glad to see the standards council fighting back.

It is time for the standards council to sign a countywide mutual aid agreement between all city agencies for full jurisdiction in each other's cities.

The cities should start to information share and start working on sharing services. Cut the sheriff out if he doesn't want to play well with others.

We are the majority, its time to start acting like it.

This was posted on the FOP website


MEETING WITH CHIEF JUDGE MORRIS ON 5/12/08

On 5/12/08, I met with Chief Judge Morris at the Criminal Justice Center to discuss the possibilityof relaxing the restriction against uniformed police officers from carrying their firearms into thecourt complex.
In light of the recent events at the St.Petersburg Courthouse, several members have contacted meand asked if the FOP would approach Judge Morris and ask if he would consider amending theadministrative order. Also at the meeting was Capt. Schobel and Bob Gualtieri.

I made my presentation outlining the concerns members have about being disarmed in thecourtroom while in uniform. I spoke about officers being trained in active shooter situations and the natural reaction officers have to assist in cases of critical incidents. Additionally, I mentioned
that the situation at the St.Petersburg courthouse could have been very tragic if a disarmed uniformed police officer would have been present, making the officer a target of the gunman, who purportedly had a hatred for government and the police.

After listening to my presentation, Judge Morris explained that he understood the FOP’s concerns and is not a proponent of disarming uniformed police officers. However, he said that he has to consider the concerns of all judges in the circuit and after addressing this situation in the past, has been met with an abundance of resistance to allow uniformed officers to carry their firearms in the courtroom. Judge Morris said that the recent changes to the administrative order that allowed
uniformed deputies to carry their firearms passed with the slimmest of margins when judges were polled. Judge Morris reiterated that he understood our concerns and appreciated that the FOP
brought it to his attention.

Although Capt. Schobel and Bob Gualtieri did not speak for or against the issue, my impressionwas that the PCSO is against the idea.

As always, should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Ken Afienko

of cousre they are, its a power struggle. which is sad because its gonna have to be a very serious event for them to reconsider this issue. yet I can carry a wepaon on a plane........ makes no sense. how does HR 518 deal with this,,,,

Get with Ken and fight this.

If the union needs to file suit citing the federal law under house bill 518 then please do so.

We need to keep up the media pressure on this story.

All the news channels should be covering this issue and we need to put the sheriff and judges on the spot.

If federal law says we can carry our weapons anywhere, then exactly where does a judge get away with limiting our rights under federal law. Perhaps, there is a provision in federal law that limits those rights in courthouses or others places, if so, I would like to know where I am limited.

I did notice all the St. Petersburg officers outside the courthouse that day that rushed to the scene, fully armed, prepared to help the judges and staff if needed. I would like to see the poll on the amount of judges at the St. Petersburg courthouse that day that were upset with all the armed municipal officers on scene. Also, I am going out on a limb that the baliff's weren't exactly worried about it either.

This is wrong anyway you slice it. This needs to be addressed and the bigger issue of the Sheriff's power trip needs to come to a rapid and strategic end.

hmm the deputy got the job done, one dead suspect. and you grip, you are safer in the court house than your own house. Do your job and shut up

There are so many ways to respond to this post.

I say we just ponder your pathetic retort to the facts.

JUST DO YOUR JOB AND SHUT UP. Poetic and right to your point. Baseless but your point none the less.

How can I do my job with no gun? Maybe you want to confront an active shooter with just your sharp wit and dizzying intellect, but me, my friend, I prefer to tilt the odds in my favor and use my superior fighting skill which includes firearms.

There are shootings at courthouses every day in this country and it's only a matter of time that we have one at the main courthouse on 49 St.. Not for nothing, but I'm not going to rely on some deputy or bailiff to save my tail...good thing my agency is one of the great ones that allows me to carry a backup gun...

I think it BS that it took this long for us to be able to carry inside. I think every LEO that comes in the door should be able to carry. We carry the same damn guns and recieve the same damn training ( I imagine ), so why not have the same damn rights to protect human life. It needs to be changed before someone gets hurt or killed.

After my meeting with Judge Morris, I learned that several chiefs signed a letter requesting officers be allowed to carry their firearms into the courtroom.

Although Judge Morris said that he must answer to the judges that work for him, I still can't find any logical reason why we can't carry our firearms into court. He did say that several of the judges were opposed to uniformed officers, other than deputies, from carrying firearms. It makes absolutely no sense to me, but we unfortunately have to live with it until the policy changes. The FOP has, and will continue, to address this issue.

My fear is that is a crazed person gets passed the mag and into the courtroom, we, as unarmed uniformed officers, will become the first target. What many don't realize is that bailiffs don't have real portable radios, they only have walkie talkies. They can't even talk to PCSO dispatch should something happen, yet officers have portables, but can't defend themselves----makes no sense.

From what I understand the Sheriff is opposed to this idea. As usual, the Sheriff wants total control, but he is sacrificing our safety for his ego. This to me in unacceptable. As officers, we understand that bailiffs are in charge of the courtroom and will defer any event to them, but why disarm a police officer who has had the same type of training?

The FOP will be keeping up the fight with this issue. Something needs to be done before someone gets hurt.

Bailiff deputies at CJC are able to communicate between themselves and building control, which is the nerve center for the complex. You self servingly paint a grim and incorrect picture of the security at the court complexes. As demonstrated by Deputies mg and bjl, a recent bad guy was stopped in his tracks. Were there others that were missed? Research all the reports of guns and other weapons confiscated by bailiffs over the years, and persons arrested for same, and I think you'll end up apologizing for your rantings.

If you really want progress in your quest to have all uniformed law enforcement have guns in the complexes, stop pouting like a baby and work quietly to achieve your goal. Find out what it is the Sheriff would require of other agencies to be allowed to carry in the courthouse, for which he has total responsibility and liability. If it's training and qualification by PCSO LETS staff, arrange for it. This tactic of demeaning the Sheriff and accusing him of being power or control hungry will not work. You tried the thing with the unfair labor practice and it cost you. You represented jb in his appeal and it cost you. Your judgement is not good. Reform while you still have the cush job at fop. Try the art of compromise and negotiation, rather than bluster and saber rattling.

Bailiff deputies at CJC are able to communicate between themselves and building control, which is the nerve center for the complex. You self servingly paint a grim and incorrect picture of the security at the court complexes. As demonstrated by Deputies mg and bjl, a recent bad guy was stopped in his tracks. Were there others that were missed? Research all the reports of guns and other weapons confiscated by bailiffs over the years, and persons arrested for same, and I think you'll end up apologizing for your rantings.

If you really want progress in your quest to have all uniformed law enforcement have guns in the complexes, stop pouting like a baby and work quietly to achieve your goal. Find out what it is the Sheriff would require of other agencies to be allowed to carry in the courthouse, for which he has total responsibility and liability. If it's training and qualification by PCSO LETS staff, arrange for it. This tactic of demeaning the Sheriff and accusing him of being power or control hungry will not work. You tried the thing with the unfair labor practice and it cost you. You represented jb in his appeal and it cost you. Your judgement is not good. Reform while you still have the cush job at fop. Try the art of compromise and negotiation, rather than bluster and saber rattling.

Hey numbnuts, compromise and negotiation? It takes two to tango and one has no concept of copromise and negotiation. Just look at the contract squabble in case you have forgotten you stupid, disrespectful jacka$$

Struck a nerve did I? Numbnuts, jackass. I can see you're mad but don't let that anger prevent you from seeing the truth in the message. I hope you don't get a gun in the courthouse. Somebody pisses you off and out comes the heater.

Struck a nerve did I? Numbnuts, jackarse. I can see you're mad but don't let that anger prevent you from seeing the truth in the message. I hope you don't get a gun in the courthouse. Somebody pisses you off and out comes the heater.

Just more "bluster" and "saber rattling" by you. Like was said before, stupid is...why don't you go sit down with a rock and see if you can compromise or negotiate with it, jacka$$.

It's not about the Sheriff, it's about my ability to defend myself if something bad happens. We are allowed to carry a firearm everywhere else, so why can't we carry it in court? Don't worry deputy dog, I wont throw salt on your parade, just let me protect myself because you might be too busy guarding the same judge who doesn't want guns in the courtroom.

Look, if you're worried about your personal safety, go stand behind or sit close to a bailiff. Better yet, wear a suit to court, or soft clothes to your depo or invest so no one knows you're law enforcement. Feel better now honey?

Why should any police officer have to stand behind, or sit next to, a bailiff to be protected? They are sworn officers just as we (deputies) are sworn. They are trained to protect not be protected. They have the right to carry a gun on and off duty and take the life of someone if necessary. WHy the hell should they have to walk the halls of the county courthouse with an empty holster? It's the same as going to a burglary call without your weapon, it makes no sense.

Was the "poll" among judges recorded in any documents? I'd like to know which judges voted against this so I can make sure not to vote for them.

That's kind of a stretch to equate being in the courthouse after going through the mag with going to a burg without your gun. Try another comparison dear.

Well, you got the point didn't you? I was just saying, walking around with an empty holster sucks. I am much happier now that I am allowed to carry.

Thanks for the backup PCSO. You make complete sense.

That's kind of a stretch to equate being in the courthouse after going through the mag with going to a burg without your gun. Try another comparison dear.

Not so much. I guarantee there are more violent criminals in the courts complex at any given time than at any burglary scene you've ever been to.

Hello! They're unarmed. If you can't defend yourself against an unarmed criminal, get out of the business. How many unarmed law enforcers have been injured in any of Pinellas County's courthouses? How many times have I seen city police officers approaching the CJC mag in uniform without their gun, which they have left in their car? Plenty. If they were so worried and properly trained, they would carry all the way to the mag, then use the lock box.

Wrong, more shootings over the years have happened at court houses around the country. If officers have secure holsters they should be allowed to carry guns in the courtrooms. It is not uncommon for subjects and relatives to find a way to get weapons in a courtroom. fact of life in this day and age. Even when we werent allowed I had a second gun or ankle gun registered to me.. with me... all the time! Its called self preservation.. and I have worked the roughest neighborhoods in Florida !
The judges carry so why not us ?

Sheriff is making a powerplay and the FOP needs to fight for the majority of the officers in the county who do not work for the sheriff.

We have the majority, we need to squeeze the sheriff and chief judge.

Threaten to fight hard against their re-election campaigns. They are politicians and will likely cave under intense pressure from us and the media.

Bailiff deputies at CJC are able to communicate between themselves and building control, which is the nerve center for the complex. You self servingly paint a grim and incorrect picture of the security at the court complexes. As demonstrated by Deputies mg and bjl, a recent bad guy was stopped in his tracks. Were there others that were missed? Research all the reports of guns and other weapons confiscated by bailiffs over the years, and persons arrested for same, and I think you'll end up apologizing for your rantings.

If you really want progress in your quest to have all uniformed law enforcement have guns in the complexes, stop pouting like a baby and work quietly to achieve your goal. Find out what it is the Sheriff would require of other agencies to be allowed to carry in the courthouse, for which he has total responsibility and liability. If it's training and qualification by PCSO LETS staff, arrange for it. This tactic of demeaning the Sheriff and accusing him of being power or control hungry will not work. You tried the thing with the unfair labor practice and it cost you. You represented jb in his appeal and it cost you. Your judgement is not good. Reform while you still have the cush job at fop. Try the art of compromise and negotiation, rather than bluster and saber rattling.\


ITS A POWER STRUGGLE, THE SHERIFF NEEDS TO GET A GRIP!

Look, if you're worried about your personal safety, go stand behind or sit close to a bailiff. Better yet, wear a suit to court, or soft clothes to your depo or invest so no one knows you're law enforcement. Feel better now honey?

That's nice lets hide,,,,, ahhhhhh no.

Hello! They're unarmed. If you can't defend yourself against an unarmed criminal, get out of the business. How many unarmed law enforcers have been injured in any of Pinellas County's courthouses? How many times have I seen city police officers approaching the CJC mag in uniform without their gun, which they have left in their car? Plenty. If they were so worried and properly trained, they would carry all the way to the mag, then use the lock box.

If you assume they are unarmed, then it is you who should get out of the business. It would really not be that difficult to get a weapon into the courthouse.

I have my back up on me anyway...they don't check and the day I don't have it I'm using a lawyer as a shield.

I CARRY A BUTTER KNIFE IN MY BOOT... SO IM GOOD

Early last year I scheduled a meeting with Chief Judge Robert Morris to discuss concerns about changing the policy and allowing all uniformed officers to carry a firearm in the courthouse. When I went to the meeting, I was told that we had to wait for 2 "guests" to arrive. Unknown to me at the time, the 2 guests were Captian Schobel and Bob Gualtieri of the Sheriff's Office. Once they arrived, the meeting began.

I expressed my concerns to Judge Morris who politely listened to my presentation. When I was done, Judge Morris told me that he had polled judges and the majority of them were not in favor of the idea. He also told me that he got a lot of grief from the same judges when he changed the policy to allow uniformed Sheriff's Office personnel to carry their firearms in the courthouse. He said that he was unable to change the policy at this time and thanked me for my comments.

Bob Gualtieri then spoke to the concerns that the Sheriff had about officers carrying their firearms in the courthouse. He said that the Sheriff is tasked with the responsibility of courthouse security and the Sheriff was opposed to officers carrying their firearms since he was unsure what kind of training we receive as officers. He also indicated that the Sheriff's courthouse personnel were highly trained and competent to handle any and all situations that they would likely encounter. He pointed to the BJ Lyons shooting as an example of how well the system worked. Bottom line is that the Sheriff and Bob Gualtieri are opposed to officers carrying their firearms in the courthouse.

That said, I have done all I can do about this issue. Until Judge Morris and Sheriff Coats have a change of heart, we will not be allowed to carry firearms into the courthouse.

That said, I have done all I can do about this issue. Until Judge Morris and Sheriff Coats have a change of heart, we will not be allowed to carry firearms into the courthouse.

Thats not good enough. Take it to the media. The Sheriff doesn't have a problem with us carrying our guns into the community that he is charged with protecting then how is the courthouse any different. He's not sure of the training we receive, Uh the same if not more than his people. Come on Ken. There has to be more. We can carry in Tampa but not in our own county, THERE HAS TO BE MORE

The media has been contacted about this issue and they did several articles and stories about it. What other suggestions do you have?

Ken,

What if FOP 43 did a petition drive for municipal officers to be delivered to the courthouse on a day when all were encouraged to attend....a big media event....

Could the state FOP not attempt to get a state law written and endorsed that would make it state law to allow state certified on duty officers to be allowed the opportunity to wear their duty weapon when on duty at the courthouse?

There is certainly more that can be done.

Is the SO okay with us backing up their officers on the street if they are being shot at? Or do we need to provide training credentials first? This is a an issue of egotistical judges who believe they are better than cops, they show this in multiple ways constantly. They only tolerate the SO having guns but can't dream of "field hands" having any power.

I hope the FOP will in the future not endorse any judge that takes a "no guns" position. There is no reason other than LEO hatred and pettiness for any of this.

I carry a concealed gun in the courthouse and I always will....no lawyer in a robe will tell me otherwise. Try and find it on me Dooputies!

Is the SO okay with us backing up their officers on the street if they are being shot at? Or do we need to provide training credentials first? This is a an issue of egotistical judges who believe they are better than cops, they show this in multiple ways constantly. They only tolerate the SO having guns but can't dream of "field hands" having any power.

I hope the FOP will in the future not endorse any judge that takes a "no guns" position. There is no reason other than LEO hatred and pettiness for any of this.

I carry a concealed gun in the courthouse and I always will....no lawyer in a robe will tell me otherwise. Try and find it on me Dooputies!

Hey Hick, Thanks for the heads up. We will now make sure that every pineapple park ofc gets shook down everytime we see you, including in civies. You will be charged accordingly with ccf, each and everyone of you cowboys!

Hey Hick, Thanks for the heads up. We will now make sure that every pineapple park ofc gets shook down everytime we see you, including in civies. You will be charged accordingly with ccf, each and everyone of you cowboys!

I hope to god you are kidding because if you actually think and act like that you are a pathetic addition to our law enforcement community. Catch a clue pal, your just another cop like the rest of us. Go back to guarding your little courthouse, feeling smug and superior, and let the road officers/deputies do their jobs. You sad sorry excuse for a LEO, exactly what is wrong with the, "New" age cops out there.

Exactly what would be the charge for a Leo carrying a firearm into a courthouse... We are protected by federal law. They refuse to admit us, but I don't think they can arrest us. Anyone with other data, please post a statute.

You guys (PPPD cops) go and whine and slam deputies, then you get offended when we slam back? Well for starters it is not up to us or you who can carry a firearm inside the courts. Im also sure that if a PPPD Oficer was caught slinging a concealed firearm in a courthouse that it would be their azz in the fryer. A CCF license wont give you authority where you are forbidden to carry, check 790.01 for that one. And what chaos would errupt if a PPPD Officer in civilian clothes pulled a gun, in an attempt to intervene in some sort of event in the courthouse? Im thinking it would add confusion to a bad situation. It could end in the wromg person being shot. Maybe you havent seen where are bailiffs took down a shooter in St. Pete. And as far as PPPD being better trained, I say fat chance. History shows detention deputies go to PPPD to get L.E. experience then come back to P.C.S.O. for the rest of their career. When was the last time a deputy left PCSO for PPPD???

So in closing, don't be stupid, follow the rules, and stop thinking you are being punished when the Chief Judge makes a decision beyond all of our control. Your inferiority complex has been noted, it serves you no purpose.

P.S.

What could Ken Afienko do about this anyway. The FOP? Hahahahhahahahahaaaa!!!!

Your superiority complex has been noted.

By the way, when was the last time we lost a former correction deputy back to PCSO?

I think it has been a while. However, I wish any the best if they choose to leave. Of course I have spoken with a few of our former officers who have left for PCSO that are sweating their jobs a bit right now due to the pending budget cut. It is your agency that still needs to cut nearly 10 million from next years budget, now ours.

I know one who left the jail, came to us on the road, went by to PCSO on the road, and then went back to the jail.......as an inmate....zing! Haha just kidding JC you know we love u.

I agree about the plain clothes thing, that is dangerous anywhere, look at what happened on the street in NYC.

As for in the courthouse, that is the chief judges' decision, but that decision was made with bad and biased info from the SO. We had active shooter training before most and I agree there should be county-wide standardized active shooter training so we can be on the same page anywhere and anytime. In my opinion, the more guns in lawful hands in the courtroom, the better. It makes no sense to neuter cops in the courthouse. The jail yes, PEMHS yes.

This whole PCSO versus PPPD fight thing hasn't flaired up in a while. It is pretty dumb because 90% or more of each agency isn't even aware of what is said on this board. We work with each other all of the time and it is nver anything but professional. Many of us here did come from the jail, some went back, but many stayed.

Of those that stayed, we have done pretty well. I look at those that went back and few have done more than push a cruiser, a few special spots, but nothing too big. Although there are some downsides, those that stuck with the Park are enjoying weekends off, promotions, special assignments (some are working on their third), abundant training, recognition, and out of county take home cars...much faster and in greater abundance than our peers who went back.

I have relatives working at the SO and I worked the jail so I know there are downsides there too. I know the SO is a good agency and I think "We're number one" pride should exist at every department, but don't slam, or at least slam accurately. I wish Gettman and JC stayed with us, I liked them both alot, both left becuase they had time over there they didn't want to lose. Some left because they didn't succeed here for whatever reason and a bigger place would be a better fit. I have heard regrets from some that have left here.

I regret the JC thing, I don't know what happened, but knowing the officer, he probably had no choice. Knowing JC somewhat, I'm sure he cooperated and will accept any responsibility for his part and put it behind him. I hope it turns out well for him and he returns to work and moves on. JC is a classy guy and I'm certaqin he wouldn't want anyone threatening anyone in his name, much less ruining the little bit of brotherhood that exists today. I know for a fact no one was "high fiving" over this, if they had they would have heard about it from me and several others first.

We extend courtesy all of the time, without getting in specifics, think of all of those jailguards and bailiffs going to and from work everyday, when is the last time they or a deputy or a deputy's spouse received a citation? (knowingly anyway). I turn off my laser certain times of the day. I personally have helped some SO (and other) personnel into taxis and spoke of their names. I hope my karma comes back to me, not some other officers' karma .

The truth is all of us would help a deputy in need and it's irksome to cops to have to rely on other cops to protect them. I would feel really bad if a deputy was disarmed and hurt in a courtroom and I just had to huddle under a table and be a "witness".

This fight and rivalry is stupid and only exists here. It's probably one guy from each agency keeping it alive.

Mr. Afienko

Now that judge morris has been promoted to 2nd dca will you bring this issue up again and soon?

Why? He tried once, that would require work on his part.

The above poster is exactly the reason I will not post on here anymore. For the person who asked a legitimate question, please call me at 894-5392 and I will speak with you about the issue. Ken

How about you grow a set of balls and just do your f u c k i n g job!!!! The FOP pays you damn well and you don't spend an hour a week on a freakin' thing. What a scam!

How about you grow a set of balls and just do your xxxxxx i n g job!!!! The FOP pays you darn well and you don't spend an hour a week on a freakin' thing. What a scam!

very true, amazing how when it boils down to it he backs off because he might piss off his golf buddy or life long pal. How can you fight for rights if your worried about your connections and chums

[quote="The Snark"]



We extend courtesy all of the time, without getting in specifics, think of all of those jailguards and bailiffs going to and from work everyday, when is the last time they or a deputy or a deputy's spouse received a citation? (knowingly anyway). I turn off my laser certain times of the day. I personally have helped some SO (and other) personnel into taxis and spoke of their names. I hope my karma comes back to me, not some other officers' karma .

I wouldn't worry about that at all officer, if I were you. Your positive attitude toward the brotherhood shows through in your writing. I can't see anyone not extending a courtesy to you if needed.

Come on guys, Ken Afienko is gonna fix your concerns! HAHAHAH, fat chance. He doesnt want to read anything negative about him because the FOP admin tells him how great he is. I'd personally like to see the FOP try and make any judge do anything at the courtgouse. Last I checked its all up to them. You guys attack deputies on the issue, but they have nothing to do with it. But, if I was working for any agency that wont exist in ten years, I'd be defensive too.

3Icourtgouse?

Wow, what a Freudian slip. :lol:

The only agency I see willowing to death is PCSO. I believe it is your agency that is suffering from layoffs and major budget cuts.

If you can't take Kenneth City, what makes you think you can take Pinellas Park. The reality, you don't play well with others. Our political leadership doesn't like you. They only stomach you when they have to.

If you ever get a Sheriff that wants to unify county law enforcement as opposed to forcibly take it over, then perhaps I will worry. Given that Sheriff's and their minnions have an ego problem, I think I will sleep well tonight.

However, you may want to look behind you, I hear there are another round of layoffs likely in the 2010 budget.... If it wasn't for your county transport grant for this year, you would have been layoffs.

One more thing, I heard today that Pasco County got 24 new deputies via stimulus money, St. Petersburg got 10, St. Pete Beach even got 1, and we got 5. You know, I didn't see your agency on the list....huh...

I.

Of those that stayed, we have done pretty well. I look at those that went back and few have done more than push a cruiser, a few special spots, but nothing too big. Although there are some downsides, those that stuck with the Park are enjoying weekends off, promotions, special assignments (some are working on their third), abundant training, recognition, and out of county take home cars...much faster and in greater abundance than our peers who went back.


WHAT A CROCK OF CRAP !!!!

The only agency I see willowing to death is PCSO. I believe it is your agency that is suffering from layoffs and major budget cuts.

Yet we out number your agency 10 to 1 and are fully staffed.

If you can't take Kenneth City, what makes you think you can take Pinellas Park. The reality, you don't play well with others. Our political leadership doesn't like you. They only stomach you when they have to.

I'm not sure when Kenneth City was asking for a contract. And how can you speak for 3000 employees not "playing well with others"? I've never had any issues with anyone from PPPD.

If you ever get a Sheriff that wants to unify county law enforcement as opposed to forcibly take it over, then perhaps I will worry. Given that Sheriff's and their minnions have an ego problem, I think I will sleep well tonight.

Reality is that it wont be up to a Sheriff or you, it WILL be your city commission that votes you out someday. Like when Pennies for Pinellas goes away.

However, you may want to look behind you, I hear there are another round of layoffs likely in the 2010 budget.... If it wasn't for your county transport grant for this year, you would have been layoffs.

I heard predictions of more layoffs, but that did not happen either. In fact promotions are coming too. Theyd have to layoff hundreds beforwe I'd worry about my job. Transportation contracts are just another thread of PCSO into every agency.

One more thing, I heard today that Pasco County got 24 new deputies via stimulus money, St. Petersburg got 10, St. Pete Beach even got 1, and we got 5. You know, I didn't see your agency on the list....huh...

Hmm, lets see, grants for positions that those agencies may not be able to maintain after the grants expire. And, again, we are fully staffed. Cities will come into line, if not nopw some day. Keep up the great traffic control at Quaker Steak n Lube, its what you are good at.

The funny thing is, I have been a police officer in this county for over a decade, the same talk is occuring today that was taking place ten years ago. In reality, no significant PCSO takeover has happened since 1998. The simple reason, the county has little to offer cities. They can't afford to suplant the city budget with county tax payer dollars anymore, if you haven't noticed, the county has few if any taxpayer dollars to spend.

PCSO will likely continue to decrease in size and service until they reach the level that their budget can support. It is only logical that PCSO would have to cut since years and years of city growth has taken place, especially in south county. When cities grow...ie. St. Petersburg, Largo, Pinellas Park etc, the tax dollars shift from the city and away from the county. The city increases law enforcement service to cover the area but PCSO for the past decade just reassigned extra deputies to special units and did not reduce its force size despite a decrease in population coverage and square mile coverage. Now, simply put the county budget cannot support all the special units, cuts were required, special units were cut, as they should have been all along.

There is still plenty of county land to police so PCSO will be here long after all of us retire, however, the cities continue to annex property every two weeks which simply means PCSO patrol areas continue to shrink. Slowly, but shrink non the less.

However, a good politically minded sheriff who talks of consolidation instead of takeover could likely win some support in local government. However in the Park, it would require a 5-0 vote in favor of merging with the sheriff. It would be very difficult to get five local politicians to agree to something as controversial as that would be.

One final thing. In regards to the acceptance of stimulus funds. The last poster was correct, the cities will have to pay in year four of the grant to keep the officers. The very same thing the sheriff will have to do in two years to keep the transport vans running. Unless of course he can get the cities to voluntarily pay to keep deputies on the street as a taxi service for our prisoners. Given our close proximity to the county jail, I might be a little concerned about keeping Pinellas Park as a customer. It likely doesn't make financial sense for us to continue if we have to flip the bill.

Congratulations on being fully staffed, It was difficult I am sure slashing those jobs over the past few years to get to this point. Oh, we are fully staffed also. Just hired three new recruits out of the academy and are looking for five more thanks to the Prez...