Shifts

I was told by the recruiter that you guys are on a 3 days on 4 days off 4days on 3days off 12hr shift schedule, Is this correct?

Yes we are. some people like it and some hate it. I truely undestand both sides to this fight...

Thanks!!!

Yes we are. some people like it and some hate it. I truely undestand both sides to this fight...

your right, guys love the 4th day and cash and they hate the work....just listen to the radio during the changeoiver and all you hear is silence on 94s while there are 3 or 4 40 units....maybe we should just go back to 10s and complain about that

There will always be complaints. 10's were better. At least we could raise our families without missing as much!!

i agree the tens were much better for family and for getting days off on alpha now they just try to change everything and make up stuff as they go along(the lts)

Has anyone noticed that more and more people are calling in sick and less and less people are coming to work?

Has anyone noticed that more and more people are calling in sick and less and less people are coming to work?

B.S.

The same people that called in sick all the time when we were on 10's are the same ones calling in sick all the time now.......

If the bosses (you know, the ones that everyone thinks are out to get them) were really out to get guys, they could have a field day writing guys up for calling in sick inappropriately. Don't open up a can of worms that you aren't prepared to defend....

There will always be complaints. 10's were better. At least we could raise our families without missing as much!!

Chance Ransom no longer has a family.

Has anyone noticed that more and more people are calling in sick and less and less people are coming to work?

B.S.

The same people that called in sick all the time when we were on 10's are the same ones calling in sick all the time now.......

If the bosses (you know, the ones that everyone thinks are out to get them) were really out to get guys, they could have a field day writing guys up for calling in sick inappropriately. Don't open up a can of worms that you aren't prepared to defend....

thats probably not true, i would guess more people are calling in then on 10s
the capts are mad because we are always near the "magical mystery" minimum......maybe they can work em and see how they like the heat....how bout we go back to 10s but keep the 4 hours per check??

Has anyone noticed that more and more people are calling in sick and less and less people are coming to work?

B.S.

The same people that called in sick all the time when we were on 10's are the same ones calling in sick all the time now.......

If the bosses (you know, the ones that everyone thinks are out to get them) were really out to get guys, they could have a field day writing guys up for calling in sick inappropriately. Don't open up a can of worms that you aren't prepared to defend....

thats probably not true, i would guess more people are calling in then on 10s
the capts are mad because we are always near the "magical mystery" minimum......maybe they can work em and see how they like the heat....how bout we go back to 10s but keep the 4 hours per check?? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

12hr shifts are here to stay...........................

12hr shifts are here to stay...........................
yes they probably are because they have caused morale to drop even more so why change?.......
the extra day off and $ are good but the shifts never end.....

12hr shifts are here to stay...........................
yes they probably are because they have caused morale to drop even more so why change?.......
the extra day off and $ are good but the shifts never end.....

very interesting that the minority vioce on here think they are the majority :shock:

I would guess that when the city leaders realize how much the 12 hour shift is going to cost the city in overtime, they will be looking to go back to 10's. If we had the number of people assigned to road patrol on 10's that we do now manpower would never have been an issue.

My bet is back to 10's in the next contract.

I would guess that when the city leaders realize how much the 12 hour shift is going to cost the city in overtime, they will be looking to go back to 10's. If we had the number of people assigned to road patrol on 10's that we do now manpower would never have been an issue.

My bet is back to 10's in the next contract.

OT has been cut, the 12's are here to stay. Nice try :cry:

ahhh i think they were referring to the 4hrs every check....the 12s are like the entire contract, they are always negotiable

ahhh i think they were referring to the 4hrs every check....the 12s are like the entire contract, they are always negotiable

wrong :shock:

ahhh i think they were referring to the 4hrs every check....the 12s are like the entire contract, they are always negotiable

wrong :shock:

so its final??? its never going to be discussed???
i would guess that the town wants em.... but that when the contracts up they will ask us to do something once agian to help them out financially ...it might not be the 12s but since a contract is NEGOTIATED every few years then every aspect in said contract are (INSERT SUPRISE) NEGOTIABLE!!
Even if you dont want to bargain an item, everything is fair game in a contract so you are wrong

ahhh i think they were referring to the 4hrs every check....the 12s are like the entire contract, they are always negotiable

wrong :shock:

so its final??? its never going to be discussed???
i would guess that the town wants em.... but that when the contracts up they will ask us to do something once agian to help them out financially ...it might not be the 12s but since a contract is NEGOTIATED every few years then every aspect in said contract are (INSERT SUPRISE) NEGOTIABLE!!
Even if you dont want to bargain an item, everything is fair game in a contract so you are wrong

wrong on this single issue (12hrs) :roll:

Here is the math:

Let's say you want 20 officers on a shift to cover the zones and allow people to be sick and take vacation.

ON TWELVE HOUR SHIFTS:

20 x 2 shifts = 40 officers a day

40 x 14 days = 560 shifts to be covered (14 days equals a pay period)

560 / 7 = 80. 7 is the number of shifts you get from each officer during their work week.

The result is that it takes 80 officers to staff the two shifts with 20 officers.

ON TEN HOUR SHIFTS:

20 x 3 shifts = 60 officers a day

60 x 14 days = 840 shifts to be covered

840 / 8 = 105. With ten hour days you get an extra shift every two weeks.

The result is that it takes 105 officers to staff three shifts with 20 officers. Thats 25 officers more.

Let's say that it costs $75 k per officer each year. This is a conservative figure with the takes and benefits that are paid over your officer.

$75,000 x 25 officers $1,875,000. That's almost two million per year.

The town will not voluntarily hand you back this money.

The one place they lose is the 4 hours overtime that is to be paid once you cap out at 80 hours. This is about $400 per month per officer. If you throw in Sergeants and Lieutenants lets just say they are paying this to 100 people. That's if we all cap out. So that's $40k a month or $480k per year. So that drops there savings closer to $1.4 million, but they are still saving a ton of cash.

The bottom line is that no one outside of Road Patrol has any interest in changing this and it would be fiscally irresponsible for the town to consider otherwise.

letws just say that the 10s were better and the 12s are here for the now and probable future....

letws just say that the 10s were better and the 12s are here for the now and probable future....

future!! just say forever. 12s are the best.

Here is the math:

Let's say you want 20 officers on a shift to cover the zones and allow people to be sick and take vacation.

ON TWELVE HOUR SHIFTS:

20 x 2 shifts = 40 officers a day

40 x 14 days = 560 shifts to be covered (14 days equals a pay period)

560 / 7 = 80. 7 is the number of shifts you get from each officer during their work week.

The result is that it takes 80 officers to staff the two shifts with 20 officers.

ON TEN HOUR SHIFTS:

20 x 3 shifts = 60 officers a day

60 x 14 days = 840 shifts to be covered

840 / 8 = 105. With ten hour days you get an extra shift every two weeks.

The result is that it takes 105 officers to staff three shifts with 20 officers. Thats 25 officers more.

Let's say that it costs $75 k per officer each year. This is a conservative figure with the takes and benefits that are paid over your officer.

$75,000 x 25 officers $1,875,000. That's almost two million per year.

The town will not voluntarily hand you back this money.

The one place they lose is the 4 hours overtime that is to be paid once you cap out at 80 hours. This is about $400 per month per officer. If you throw in Sergeants and Lieutenants lets just say they are paying this to 100 people. That's if we all cap out. So that's $40k a month or $480k per year. So that drops there savings closer to $1.4 million, but they are still saving a ton of cash.

The bottom line is that no one outside of Road Patrol has any interest in changing this and it would be fiscally irresponsible for the town to consider otherwise.

you are pretty much correct on all points except the example of manpower on the 10s....i know you were just using a # but i dont recall ever having 60 people assigned for a day(20x3) usually it was 10-12 x3 ending up with around 34-38 give or take a few so it wouldnt require as many as you deduced .....
they did raise the unofficial minimum toward the end but on bravo we only had 10 guys because they included the t units and on alpha they doubled up dist 2 and 3 ....
but you are right amonut $$$$ thats all that matters to them

Yeah the argument is more about efficiency. They routinely stripped shifts to make due. I will say that if they were staffing 10-12 they were probably running with 15 assigned to the day, when you take into account time off, sick time, etc.

your right and i do appreciate you taking the time to explain it to alot of the guys who are thinking in terms of an operation from the wrong viewpoint, they should focus on the position the town and mgmt take financially not the number of us actually working

HAS ANYONE ABOVE THE RANK OF SGT NOTICED THAT WE ARE AGAIN DOUBLING UP ZONES ON BOTH SHIFTS?? WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT GREAT PLAN THAT WE WILL HAVE THIS HUGE SURPLUS OF LEOS??? DID THEY PULL ONE OVER ON US AGAIN? I GUESS THEY DONT CARE OR DONT KNOW. EITHER WAY SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET HURT....AND IM NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT ALL THE SIG 4S?

I would guess that when the city leaders realize how much the 12 hour shift is going to cost the city in overtime, they will be looking to go back to 10's. If we had the number of people assigned to road patrol on 10's that we do now manpower would never have been an issue.

My bet is back to 10's in the next contract.

I havent done the math in a few weeks, but lets say that everyone on the road maxes out their comp banks. Thats about a half million in overtime year. They are saving something like 1.5 million being on the 12's. It is way too much of a savings. Sicktime doesnt cost them anything until they have to call in someone for overtime. Your sick time is a liability they carry on the books and your use of the time benefits the town in an indirect way.

Has anyone noticed that more and more people are calling in sick and less and less people are coming to work?

B.S.

The same people that called in sick all the time when we were on 10's are the same ones calling in sick all the time now.......

If the bosses (you know, the ones that everyone thinks are out to get them) were really out to get guys, they could have a field day writing guys up for calling in sick inappropriately. Don't open up a can of worms that you aren't prepared to defend....

We had the 12's (two days on - two days off) in the late 70's. It lasted two years. I was attending Nova Univ from 78 -82. The professor assigned us to do a study involving our own depts. I did mine on the 12 hour shift. I compared only those who had worked two years prior to the 12's and the two years of the 12's. The 12 hour shift ceased after two years via collective bargaining, so we had nothing to gain or lose by the results of the study. The results were bad. Sick time initially went down, but skyrocketed the 2nd year. Traffic citations, per officer per shift, fell to the same level as during the 8-hour shift, even though we had 50% longer shifts. The average total calls per officer went up, but on-view calls went down. Arrests per officer went up, but very slightly. Most of the officers felt that the 12 hour shift strained them personally, which affected them professionally. Officers said that by the time the second year came around they were simply stretching eight hours of work into 12. They did not know the statistical side of the study, nor did I when I got the questionairres back, but the statistical part of the study bore out what they said. The west side was not as developed in the 70's as it is now, so west side guys were driving 200+ miles per shift. We had a provision for the Alpha guys that if they had court during the day between their 1st and 2nd days, that they did not have to report for duty till eight hours after leaving court, but guys on Alpha often had DL hearings at 0800 or traffic court at 1000, so they were drowsy in court.

I would guess that when the city leaders realize how much the 12 hour shift is going to cost the city in overtime, they will be looking to go back to 10's. If we had the number of people assigned to road patrol on 10's that we do now manpower would never have been an issue.

My bet is back to 10's in the next contract.

I havent done the math in a few weeks, but lets say that everyone on the road maxes out their comp banks. Thats about a half million in overtime year. They are saving something like 1.5 million being on the 12's. It is way too much of a savings. Sicktime doesnt cost them anything until they have to call in someone for overtime. Your sick time is a liability they carry on the books and your use of the time benefits the town in an indirect way.

Do you think that the t.admin. and/or the chief realized that the longer people work,the more tired they become and it may be a direct cause of so many of these recent sig 4's? They can blame any number of things on the 4's (having to drive all shift will obviously result in some 4's) but I would guess that fatigue may be a leading cause. I doubt they were able to put a financial cost on that during their budget planning. I guess what Im trying to say is why are they so crazy about crashes when they knew that it was an obvious possibility.

I am sure that speeding, talking/texting on the cell phone, typing on your computer, etc has nothing at all to do with us crashing our cars. At this rate we will lose our take home vehicles.....

I am sure that speeding, talking/texting on the cell phone, typing on your computer, etc has nothing at all to do with us crashing our cars. At this rate we will lose our take home vehicles.....

wowww this is great , this smacks of a person with an extended tail like no other...let me guess who you are...you are a non union employee(liike the command staff) you do not know what is in our contract (see 1st guess) you make up things as you go along (same) or you could be a new or an uneducated person (same)
either way you wont lose your contractual benefit just because the 4s are increasing....wipe your chin and read your contract
however,your reasons may have some validity to them,but only speeding is illegal(the rest are dumb) and so many other factors could be listed like the heat, the wind, the longer shifts, a moonlesss night or the monkey in chris griffins closet, all are just as believable..
on a side note, did the fbi conclude their recent investigation into why that crazy security gate was only intentionally targeting unmarked police cars? i heard that all of the crashes were blamed on the uneven planet alignments and the heat,the wind,etcc...
so dont sweat the small stuff moonbat and worry about your own driving,(i almost just hit a tree as i was typing this)
burp

i know a way the department could cut down the amount of wrecks by 1/2. get rid of the gate from hell. it claims 2 to 3 victim's a week :devil:

i know a way the department could cut down the amount of wrecks by 1/2. get rid of the gate from hell. it claims 2 to 3 victim's a week :devil:
2 to 3 a week? check your info. How about this, try paying attention when we enter and exit thru the so called gate from hell. Now that would be a novel idea. :devil:

2 to 3 a week? check your info. How about this, try paying attention when we enter and exit thru the so called gate from hell. Now that would be a novel idea. :devil:[/quote]

Wow, what a powerful come back... I can't believe that you waisted the energy to type that response. Looser

2 to 3 a week? check your info. How about this, try paying attention when we enter and exit thru the so called gate from hell. Now that would be a novel idea. :devil:

Wow, what a powerful come back... I can't believe that you waisted the energy to type that response. Looser[/quote]

truth is a powerful thing.......................... :snicker:

I am sure that speeding, talking/texting on the cell phone, typing on your computer, etc has nothing at all to do with us crashing our cars. At this rate we will lose our take home vehicles.....

wowww this is great , this smacks of a person with an extended tail like no other...let me guess who you are...you are a non union employee(liike the command staff) you do not know what is in our contract (see 1st guess) you make up things as you go along (same) or you could be a new or an uneducated person (same)
either way you wont lose your contractual benefit just because the 4s are increasing....wipe your chin and read your contract
however,your reasons may have some validity to them,but only speeding is illegal(the rest are dumb) and so many other factors could be listed like the heat, the wind, the longer shifts, a moonlesss night or the monkey in chris griffins closet, all are just as believable..
on a side note, did the fbi conclude their recent investigation into why that crazy security gate was only intentionally targeting unmarked police cars? i heard that all of the crashes were blamed on the uneven planet alignments and the heat,the wind,etcc...
so dont sweat the small stuff moonbat and worry about your own driving,(i almost just hit a tree as i was typing this)
burp

the chief is furious that all these 4s are happening yet they dont take into account the adjustment by us to the new 12 hour shifts whcich may be a key factor.

nice job by moe stooge by putting the senior guys in busy zones next bid. maybe now they can actually do something once a month

Ummm....what?

nice job by moe stooge by putting the senior guys in busy zones next bid. maybe now they can actually do something once a month

I was talking to Moyer the other day... The reason he put the senor guys in busy zones is because he is tired of all the 41's occuring whole the younger people are always on traffic stops and making b.s. Arrests.....

nice job by moe stooge by putting the senior guys in busy zones next bid. maybe now they can actually do something once a month

I was talking to Moyer the other day... The reason he put the senor guys in busy zones is because he is tired of all the 41's occuring whole the younger people are always on traffic stops and making b.s. Arrests.....

Two things to say here.... For the person who claims he spoke with Captian Moyer. I know him and I doubt he would have said that to you. I feel your lying.

To the person who made the comment about the senior guys actually doing anything here. Who are you? If your such a great officer, why do you hide behind a screen name? I mean, Are you an FTO? I hope so, so you can train the new people to be a great cop like you. I am a senior officer here and I am very proud of my work. My stats might not be like they were a few years ago, but I probably give away 6 arrests a month to new cops and/or trainees. There is more to police work then stats. I will make a deal with you.... Pick a month (not December due to the holidays) and we can have a little compition thing. My stats verse yours. The only thing is you have to let me know who you are? Please don't take this the wrong way, I am sure your a good officer. I am sure your stats are great and I am sure I like working with you. I just don't understand who you are to judge people.

[quote=Guest]nice job by moe stooge by putting the senior guys in busy zones next bid. maybe now they can actually do something once a month

I was talking to Moyer the other day... The reason he put the senor guys in busy zones is because he is tired of all the 41's occuring whole the younger people are always on traffic stops and making b.s. Arrests.....

Two things to say here.... For the person who claims he spoke with Captian Moyer. I know him and I doubt he would have said that to you. I feel your lying.

To the person who made the comment about the senior guys actually doing anything here. Who are you? If your such a great officer, why do you hide behind a screen name? I mean, Are you an FTO? I hope so, so you can train the new people to be a great cop like you. I am a senior officer here and I am very proud of my work. My stats might not be like they were a few years ago, but I probably give away 6 arrests a month to new cops and/or trainees. There is more to police work then stats. I will make a deal with you.... Pick a month (not December due to the holidays) and we can have a little compition thing. My stats verse yours. The only thing is you have to let me know who you are? Please don't take this the wrong way, I am sure your a good officer. I am sure your stats are great and I am sure I like working with you. I just don't understand who you are to judge people.[/quote:lhkh89fx]

Another fine example of a MATURE Lance, :D so nice to have you back and yes it is me again.

I was talking to Moyer the other day...

now if i had a nickel for everytime someone started a conversation with that....id have .....nothing

[quote=Guest]nice job by moe stooge by putting the senior guys in busy zones next bid. maybe now they can actually do something once a month

I was talking to Moyer the other day... The reason he put the senor guys in busy zones is because he is tired of all the 41's occuring whole the younger people are always on traffic stops and making b.s. Arrests.....

Two things to say here.... For the person who claims he spoke with Captian Moyer. I know him and I doubt he would have said that to you. I feel your lying.

To the person who made the comment about the senior guys actually doing anything here. Who are you? If your such a great officer, why do you hide behind a screen name? I mean, Are you an FTO? I hope so, so you can train the new people to be a great cop like you. I am a senior officer here and I am very proud of my work. My stats might not be like they were a few years ago, but I probably give away 6 arrests a month to new cops and/or trainees. There is more to police work then stats. I will make a deal with you.... Pick a month (not December due to the holidays) and we can have a little compition thing. My stats verse yours. The only thing is you have to let me know who you are? Please don't take this the wrong way, I am sure your a good officer. I am sure your stats are great and I am sure I like working with you. I just don't understand who you are to judge people.

Another fine example of a MATURE Lance, :D so nice to have you back and yes it is me again.[/quote:2qx6tbt0]

hey boo, what woo isnt great to have Lance back! yep it is