View Full Version : Comp time
Can the PBA negotiate to eliminate comp time and force the Sheriff to pay overtime? Granted, the overtime would go down to next to nothing everywhere but the jail, but still... it is getting rediculous that so many people have so much leave that is unusable. In addition, it is a liability for the county because they have to plan on paying out all taht leave when people quit/retire.
Under FEDERAL law the EMPLOYEE decides if he wants comp time or overtime. Don't be fooled into thinking otherwise. If you volunteer for the comp time you are playing into management abusing when you can use the comp time on the books. Like never or not when you want it but when they do. Take the money and run.
Under FEDERAL law the EMPLOYEE decides if he wants comp time or overtime. Don't be fooled into thinking otherwise. If you volunteer for the comp time you are playing into management abusing when you can use the comp time on the books. Like never or not when you want it but when they do. Take the money and run.
That rule dosnt apply to Law Enforcement or Public Safety jobs.
Tip #1: Don't come to LEOAffairs for legal advice.
The above poster is incorrect and most likely from the Morgan Camp since they tried to spread this lie before.
The short answer is no the PBA cannot do this. (The PBA and Admin tried to do this last negotiations, but they were told it would cost too much).
Police have their own separate FLSA rules. As long as they pay you comp time at 1.5x they can "force" you to earn up to 480 comp time hours in a year. After that, it would be your choice.
Go here for more info about police and overtime:
http://www.flsa.com/police.html
Being that I work for an agency that pays overtime in lieu of comp time (SRSO), I can give my opinion on this subject. I personally like the ability to bank comp time for later use on my schedule. We will get paid out for all overtime worked during a pay period, but supervisors are tasked with the responsibility of making sure every officer under their supervision gets only 80 hours a pay period. All overtime is closely scrutinized and shifts are often forced to work short due to officers being sent home early to burn off time. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems and you will find an argument either way it turns out.
I will take my comp time any day over paid overtime. If side jobs ever went away I might see it differently. Where else can you take off paid vacation as much as we do?
Another plus for ciomp time is you dont pay income tax on comp time like you do on overtime.
all true and very good points, I personally appreciate comp time, but I think the thread questions the many employees that have over the 480 hours banked, not to mention their holiday and annual leave.
It would be very nice to have an option, even if it were only for a certain amount of hours every bit helps. For people who were around under lowman it was nice to get 30 hours paid out at christmas time.
Dont pay income tax? It still goes on your check as hours worked and that total check is still taxed. I disagree .
Dont pay income tax? It still goes on your check as hours worked and that total check is still taxed. I disagree .
You can disagree all you want but you are completely wrong and obviously don't work for ECSO. If you ever cash it out it gets taxed then. Go away.
For people who were around under lowman it was nice to get 30 hours paid out at christmas time.
Yep, those were the good days...Now we cannot even get a cost of living raise....
Dont pay income tax? It still goes on your check as hours worked and that total check is still taxed. I disagree .
You can disagree all you want but you are completely wrong and obviously don't work for ECSO. If you ever cash it out it gets taxed then. Go away.
I think they are refering to using the time instead of cashing it out... not that they have an option.
The best compromise, in my opinion, would be to allow a maximum amount of banked comp time. The problem in banking overtime, from an admin viewpoint, is you may earn the time at one pay rate, and by the time you cash out, sometimes years later, that same time could be worth much more than when it was earned. We all know people that will abuse the system and work over just to max out whatever method is in place.
The best compromise, in my opinion, would be to allow a maximum amount of banked comp time. The problem in banking overtime, from an admin viewpoint, is you may earn the time at one pay rate, and by the time you cash out, sometimes years later, that same time could be worth much more than when it was earned. We all know people that will abuse the system and work over just to max out whatever method is in place.
Does the admin has to carry any comp time on the books as a liability and budget for it?
If so, why don't they just pay it off....
The best compromise, in my opinion, would be to allow a maximum amount of banked comp time. The problem in banking overtime, from an admin viewpoint, is you may earn the time at one pay rate, and by the time you cash out, sometimes years later, that same time could be worth much more than when it was earned. We all know people that will abuse the system and work over just to max out whatever method is in place.
Does the admin has to carry any comp time on the books as a liability and budget for it?
If so, why don't they just pay it off....
Love him or hate him, he sure hits the nail on the head with this! Bill Gates recently gave a speech at a High School about 11 things they did not and will not learn in school. He talks about how feel-good, politically correct teachings created a generation of kids with no concept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the real world.
Rule 1: Life is not fair - get used to it!
Rule 2 : The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.
Rule 3 : You will NOT make $60,000 a year right out of high school. You won't be a vice-president with a car phone until you earn both.
Rule 4 : If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss.
Rule 5 : Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your Grandparents had a different word for burger fl ipping: they called it opportunity.
Rule 6: If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine about your mistakes, learn from them.
Rule 7: Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you thought you
were. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parent's generation, try delousing the closet in your own room.
Rule 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life HAS NOT. In some schools, they have abolished failing grades and they'll give you as MANY TIMES as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.
Rule 9: Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you FIND YOURSELF. Do that on your own time.
Rule 10: Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.
Rule 11: Be nice to
nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one.
Thanks for that speal... who gives a shizzaz....
The best compromise, in my opinion, would be to allow a maximum amount of banked comp time. The problem in banking overtime, from an admin viewpoint, is you may earn the time at one pay rate, and by the time you cash out, sometimes years later, that same time could be worth much more than when it was earned. We all know people that will abuse the system and work over just to max out whatever method is in place.
Does the admin has to carry any comp time on the books as a liability and budget for it?
If so, why don't they just pay it off....
A portion has to be budgeted for those who the admin knows is going to retire as well as a "formula" for unexpected retirements.
Why is there so much concern as to whether deputies EARN overtime or comp time?....They EARN it....
Why is there so much concern as to whether deputies EARN overtime or comp time?....They EARN it....
Winn Dixie don't take comp time bro.
Can't use it at the gas station either
Tip #1: Don't come to LEOAffairs for legal advice.
The above poster is incorrect and most likely from the Morgan Camp since they tried to spread this lie before.
The short answer is no the PBA cannot do this. (The PBA and Admin tried to do this last negotiations, but they were told it would cost too much).
Police have their own separate FLSA rules. As long as they pay you comp time at 1.5x they can "force" you to earn up to 480 comp time hours in a year. After that, it would be your choice.
Go here for more info about police and overtime:
http://www.flsa.com/police.html
This link:http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs7.pdf
is a quick and dirty summary of FLSA rules for Police and Fire
Depending on how the agency has set up their payroll depends on how comp time is addressed. The bottom line is that the agency CANNOT FORCE an employee to take comp time in lieu of cash after the pay period hours are met. If a Department decides to curtail your work week because you have already reached the magic number of hours in the pay period they can do this but it is NOT COMP TIME. You or they can call it comp time if you wish but under FLSA rules it is not. The Department can manage the employee schedule and that's what it falls under.
In order to bank comp time the EMPLOYEE CHOOSES to take comp time in lieu of cash at an OT rate. Anyone telling you different is reading info into the regulations that is not there.
If you are being FORCED to take comp time in lieu of paid (cash) OT then you have a valid complaint under NLRA (National Labor Relations Act) based on the FLSA regulations. There are HUGE penalties attached if the NLRA Board finds the Department guilty of violating your rights under FLSA/NLRA.
It's a moot point unless someone has the nuts enough to file a complaint!
its in the union contract.. therefore it isnt a HUGE violation.
its in the union contract.. therefore it isnt a HUGE violation.
Just like in dealing with citizens, there are some people you can't help because they're too stupid or too scared to help themselves. The last 2 posters are prime examples.
Good luck ECSO,you all deserve what you get.
Tip #1: Don't come to LEOAffairs for legal advice.
The above poster is incorrect and most likely from the Morgan Camp since they tried to spread this lie before.
The short answer is no the PBA cannot do this. (The PBA and Admin tried to do this last negotiations, but they were told it would cost too much).
Police have their own separate FLSA rules. As long as they pay you comp time at 1.5x they can "force" you to earn up to 480 comp time hours in a year. After that, it would be your choice.
Go here for more info about police and overtime:
http://www.flsa.com/police.html
This link:http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs7.pdf
is a quick and dirty summary of FLSA rules for Police and Fire
Depending on how the agency has set up their payroll depends on how comp time is addressed. The bottom line is that the agency CANNOT FORCE an employee to take comp time in lieu of cash after the pay period hours are met. If a Department decides to curtail your work week because you have already reached the magic number of hours in the pay period they can do this but it is NOT COMP TIME. You or they can call it comp time if you wish but under FLSA rules it is not. The Department can manage the employee schedule and that's what it falls under.
In order to bank comp time the EMPLOYEE CHOOSES to take comp time in lieu of cash at an OT rate. Anyone telling you different is reading info into the regulations that is not there.
If you are being FORCED to take comp time in lieu of paid (cash) OT then you have a valid complaint under NLRA (National Labor Relations Act) based on the FLSA regulations. There are HUGE penalties attached if the NLRA Board finds the Department guilty of violating your rights under FLSA/NLRA.
Ok lets try this again, lets try this again. Your link doesn't contradict what I said. The department can set a work week form 7 - 28 days. If you exceed it you get overtime according to the document you have linked to. FLSA considers comp time and Cash compensation both overtime. Your link says nothing about cash $$$. Read my link, get educated and stop showing your ignorance. From the link you obviously didnt read:
"Compensatory Time. Police employers may pay some FLSA overtime with "comp. time" instead of cash. Comp. time systems must be set up properly, and there are some fairly technical rules governing FLSA comp. time. Comp. time in lieu of cash for FLSA overtime must be paid at time and one-half. A department may "cap" the number of hours officers may carry in the FLSA comp. time banks, in any amount up to 480 hours. Employers may not impose a "use it or lose it" requirement, however employers may require officers to "burn" accrued FLSA comp. time, or may buy out FLSA comp. time accruals in cash. Employees do not have the right to trade FLSA comp. time for cash (except when they leave the job). The case law on the right to use comp. time is in flux. The current weight of the law is that employers may require reasonable advance notice when an employee wishes to use accrued FLSA comp. time. Employers must permit employees to use accrued FLSA comp. time within a reasonable time after request, provided that the officer's absence will not create a genuine operational problem for the employer."
BTW weren't you muzzled by your boss?
Also if you want to use the Department of Labor website try reading the administrative code rather than a summary:
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title ... 53.231.htm (http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_553/29CFR553.231.htm)
(a) Law enforcement and fire protection employees who are subject to
the section 7(k) exemption may receive compensatory time off in lieu of
overtime pay for hours worked in excess of the maximum for their work
period as set forth in Sec. 553.230. The rules for compensatory time off
are set forth in Secs. 553.20 through 553.28 of this part.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title ... 53.232.htm (http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_553/29CFR553.232.htm)
If a public agency pays employees subject to section 7(k) for
overtime hours worked in cash wages rather than compensatory time off,
such wages must be paid at one and one-half times the employees' regular
rates of pay. In addition, employees who have accrued the maximum 480
hours of compensatory time must be paid cash wages of time and one-half
their regular rates of pay for overtime hours in excess of the maximum
for the work period set forth in Sec. 553.230.
You show me where a cop has a choice of comp time or paid cash overtime. You can't. I can also tell you haven't been a cop, and I can tell that you are very similar to a certain candidate who can't figure out what public documents actually say.
Tip #1: Don't come to LEOAffairs for legal advice.
The above poster is incorrect and most likely from the Morgan Camp since they tried to spread this lie before.
The short answer is no the PBA cannot do this. (The PBA and Admin tried to do this last negotiations, but they were told it would cost too much).
Police have their own separate FLSA rules. As long as they pay you comp time at 1.5x they can "force" you to earn up to 480 comp time hours in a year. After that, it would be your choice.
Go here for more info about police and overtime:
http://www.flsa.com/police.html
This link:http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs7.pdf
is a quick and dirty summary of FLSA rules for Police and Fire
Depending on how the agency has set up their payroll depends on how comp time is addressed. The bottom line is that the agency CANNOT FORCE an employee to take comp time in lieu of cash after the pay period hours are met. If a Department decides to curtail your work week because you have already reached the magic number of hours in the pay period they can do this but it is NOT COMP TIME. You or they can call it comp time if you wish but under FLSA rules it is not. The Department can manage the employee schedule and that's what it falls under.
In order to bank comp time the EMPLOYEE CHOOSES to take comp time in lieu of cash at an OT rate. Anyone telling you different is reading info into the regulations that is not there.
If you are being FORCED to take comp time in lieu of paid (cash) OT then you have a valid complaint under NLRA (National Labor Relations Act) based on the FLSA regulations. There are HUGE penalties attached if the NLRA Board finds the Department guilty of violating your rights under FLSA/NLRA.
Ok lets try this again, lets try this again. Your link doesn't contradict what I said. The department can set a work week form 7 - 28 days. If you exceed it you get overtime according to the document you have linked to. FLSA considers comp time and Cash compensation both overtime. Your link says nothing about cash $$$. Read my link, get educated and stop showing your ignorance. From the link you obviously didnt read:
"Compensatory Time. Police employers may pay some FLSA overtime with "comp. time" instead of cash. Comp. time systems must be set up properly, and there are some fairly technical rules governing FLSA comp. time. Comp. time in lieu of cash for FLSA overtime must be paid at time and one-half. A department may "cap" the number of hours officers may carry in the FLSA comp. time banks, in any amount up to 480 hours. Employers may not impose a "use it or lose it" requirement, however employers may require officers to "burn" accrued FLSA comp. time, or may buy out FLSA comp. time accruals in cash. Employees do not have the right to trade FLSA comp. time for cash (except when they leave the job). The case law on the right to use comp. time is in flux. The current weight of the law is that employers may require reasonable advance notice when an employee wishes to use accrued FLSA comp. time. Employers must permit employees to use accrued FLSA comp. time within a reasonable time after request, provided that the officer's absence will not create a genuine operational problem for the employer."
BTW weren't you muzzled by your boss?
Who's my Boss? The only boss I have is my wife and she doesn't mind me posting, so I'm not sure who you're referring to. You may want to refer to the below section:
29 CFR 553.25 - Conditions for use of compensatory time (``reasonable period'', ``unduly disrupt'').
* Section Number: 553.25
* Section Name: Conditions for use of compensatory time (``reasonable period'', ``unduly disrupt'').
(a) Section 7(o)(5) of the FLSA provides that any employee of a
public agency who has accrued compensatory time and requested use of
this compensatory time, shall be permitted to use such time off within a
``reasonable period'' after making the request, if such use does not
``unduly disrupt'' the operations of the agency. This provision,
however, does not apply to ``other compensatory time'' (as defined below
in Sec. 553.28), including compensatory time accrued for overtime worked
prior to April 15, 1986.
(b) Compensatory time cannot be used as a means to avoid statutory
overtime compensation. An employee has the right to use compensatory
time earned and must not be coerced to accept more compensatory time
than an employer can realistically and in good faith expect to be able
to grant within a reasonable period of his or her making a request for
use of such time.
(c) Reasonable period. (1) Whether a request to use compensatory
time has
been granted within a ``reasonable period'' will be determined by
considering the customary work practices within the agency based on the
facts and circumstances in each case. Such practices include, but are
not limited to (a) the normal schedule of work, (b) anticipated peak
workloads based on past experience, (c) emergency requirements for staff
and services, and (d) the availability of qualified substitute staff.
(2) The use of compensatory time in lieu of cash payment for
overtime must be pursuant to some form of agreement or understanding
between the employer and the employee (or the representative of the
employee) reached prior to the performance of the work. (See
Sec. 553.23.) To the extent that the (conditions under which an employee
can take compensatory time off are contained in an agreement or
understanding as defined in Sec. 553.23, the terms of such agreement or
understanding will govern the meaning of ``reasonable period''.
(d) Unduly disrupt. When an employer receives a request for
compensatory time off, it shall be honored unless to do so would be
``unduly disruptive'' to the agency's operations. Mere inconvenience to
the employer is an insufficient basis for denial of a request for
compensatory time off. (See H. Rep. 99-331, p. 23.) For an agency to
turn down a request from an employee for compensatory time off requires
that it should reasonably and in good faith anticipate that it would
impose an unreasonable burden on the agency's ability to provide
services of acceptable quality and quantity for the public during the
time requested without the use of the employee's services.
[52 FR 2032, Jan. 16, 1987; 52 FR 2648, Jan. 23, 1987]
Note paragraph b and paragraph 2: The use of compensatory time in lieu of cash payment for overtime must be pursuant to some form of agreement or understanding between the employer and the employee (or the representative of the employee) reached prior to the performance of the work.
I point you to Webster's dictionary for the definition of "agreement". Look it up. You'll be surprised to see that in this context one must CHOOSE a certain set of parameters in order to AGREE to take comp time in lieu of cash payment.
Oh and as to the poster who knows whether I'm a cop or not, you're wrong about that and you're wrong about my affiliation to any candidate for sheriff. You're also wrong about Comp time.
The truth hurts.
Someone already said it, "It wont be know if an officer can force the agency to pay his over time in cash in lieu of comp. time until someone files a coplaint with the FLSA.
If the union was up to snuff, it would enter a complaint on behalf of the employees.
its in the union contract.. therefore it isnt a HUGE violation.
Just like in dealing with citizens, there are some people you can't help because they're too stupid or too scared to help themselves. The last 2 posters are prime examples.
Good luck ECSO,you all deserve what you get. Let me help you understand... the union has a collective barganning agreement with the Sheriff. The union has a contract that states how overtime is paid. The current contract states that overtime is awarded as comp time. Therefore it isnt against the law, its part of the union contract... , so i guess i`m the one that is too stupied to help myself.....
its in the union contract.. therefore it isnt a HUGE violation.
Just like in dealing with citizens, there are some people you can't help because they're too stupid or too scared to help themselves. The last 2 posters are prime examples.
Good luck ECSO,you all deserve what you get. Let me help you understand... the union has a collective barganning agreement with the Sheriff. The union has a contract that states how overtime is paid. The current contract states that overtime is awarded as comp time. Therefore it isnt against the law, its part of the union contract... , so i guess i`m the one that is too stupied to help myself.....
You said it.
The contract had to be approved by the members. The members are you and whoever else voted to approve it when you clearly didn't have to. So I guess you are.
its in the union contract.. therefore it isnt a HUGE violation.
Just like in dealing with citizens, there are some people you can't help because they're too stupid or too scared to help themselves. The last 2 posters are prime examples.
Good luck ECSO,you all deserve what you get. Let me help you understand... the union has a collective barganning agreement with the Sheriff. The union has a contract that states how overtime is paid. The current contract states that overtime is awarded as comp time. Therefore it isnt against the law, its part of the union contract... , so i guess i`m the one that is too stupied to help myself.....
You said it.
The contract had to be approved by the members. The members are you and whoever else voted to approve it when you clearly didn't have to. So I guess you are.
You must not not be in Law Enforcement (Civilian) much less the union. The members dont approve a contract. Your union reps go to meet with the Sheriff and they work out the contract... the only way to get rid of comp time and have paid overtime is through contract negotiations... and Car One isnt going to sign off on that....
its in the union contract.. therefore it isnt a HUGE violation.
Just like in dealing with citizens, there are some people you can't help because they're too stupid or too scared to help themselves. The last 2 posters are prime examples.
Good luck ECSO,you all deserve what you get. Let me help you understand... the union has a collective barganning agreement with the Sheriff. The union has a contract that states how overtime is paid. The current contract states that overtime is awarded as comp time. Therefore it isnt against the law, its part of the union contract... , so i guess i`m the one that is too stupied to help myself.....
You said it.
on reps go to meet with the Sheriff and they work out the contract... the only way to get rid of comp time and have paid overtime is through contract negotiations... and Car One isnt going to sign off on that....
So who are the Union reps? Aren't the Union reps taking their marching orders from the deputies they represent? If the majority of the members say DO NOT RATIFY this contract and they go ahead and do so anyway and then retain their position in the union whose fault is that?
Here's what article 17 of the current ECSO contract says. I suggest you read it sometime:
ARTICLE 17
HOURS OF WORK AND OVERTIME
17.01 Fair Labor Standards Act and Hours of Work
A. Law Enforcement employees shall be assigned to either eight (8) or ten
(10) hour work days. The work week of officers shall be forty (40) hours, except for those officers assigned to a twelve (12) hour shift.
B. All authorized leave with pay, except sick leave, and Association release time shall be considered time worked for purposes of computing contract time.
C. Authorized meal periods or breaks shall be counted as hours worked if
the direct support personnel is required to remain on standby for duty and receive assignments through telephone, radio or pager, or return to duty during the period and actually returns to work as a result of a request to do so.
D. The work period for direct support personnel employed in Detention and detention deputies will remain unchanged with the ratification of this agreement.
E. In order to administratively manage the accrual of compensatory leave, if the employee is below the allotted leave balances, employees may either accumulate leave or flex their hours during their regularly assigned work schedule, with supervisory approval. If the employees are over their allotted
leave balances, management can require the employee to flex their hours during his/her regularly assigned work schedule.
F. “Hours worked”, for purposes of paid overtime, will not include the use of annual leave or sick leave during the established work period, but “hours worked” will include the use of compensatory, holiday, or administrative leave with pay which may be utilized during the established work period; however, the use of compensatory, holiday, or administrative leave as “hours worked” shall not exceed a total of ten (10) hours per work period (twenty-four (24) hours per work period for Detention personnel).
G. The parties to this agreement understand and acknowledge that it is
possible for an employee to deliberately manipulate the discharge of his
responsibilities in a way that could result in the accrual of overtime when such accrual would have been avoided without such manipulation. The parties further agree that in any instance where such manipulation is established to have occurred, that situation would constitute just cause for disciplinary measures to be applied.
Paragraph E talks about the utilization of accrued comp time. It does not say that overtime WILL be given as comp time. It talks about how comp time will be used after it's accrued. In fact no where in the present contract does it say OT WILL be given as comp time.
It appears no one in the ECSO is man enough to grieve management's abuse of the contract language to force people to take comp instead of getting cash payment for OT worked. In addition, the contract language that says excess leave goes away after 2009 is crazy. In other words, the ECSO is just not going to pay you for the hours you worked if you didn't get an opportunity to take the time off. They are in effect stealing money out of your pocket and you all are going along with it.
To top it off you try to change the subject by claiming I'm not a cop (wrong) or that I have no knowledge of Police unions (wrong again). It seems YOU must be a MANAGEMENT FLUNKY, who has been screwing your fellow deputies by violating their rights under FLSA and your own contract. That's why you protest so much. You don't want the truth to come out. Like I said before, you can't help people who are too scared to help themselves or too stupid to know when they can be helped. Oh and it's "stupid" not "stupied"
The point made is that the comp time issue is not illegal. It is set up in the contract and it has been that way for years.. way before i came on board at the S.O. the only way to change it is through the union contract...
The point made is that the comp time issue is not illegal. It is set up in the contract and it has been that way for years.. way before i came on board at the S.O. the only way to change it is through the union contract...
This thread started because someone asked if PBA could stop the forced taking of comp time instead of paid OT.
From there it turned into a free for all with bad information, insults and general BS
The bottom line is the ECSO contract has NO PROVISION or AGREEMENT in it that says a Deputy must take comp time instead of OT. Even if it did you cannot have a contract that violates federal law or regulations as set forth in FLSA and the NLRB.
Past practice and management rights aside, if the ECSO Deputies want the comp/OT in the department changed someone is going to have to man up and file a complaint with NLRB. Management is not going to give you this, you are going to have to fight for it. The PBA has obviously sold you out by allowing this to go on without taking it to court and the fact they allowed the following language from Article 17 in the contract is outright thievery: in the event that such employees have not utilized these excess leave balances or any other circumstance resulting in an excess leave balance, the excess leave balances will be eliminated at midnight, June 1, 2009; however, accumulated annual leave and sick leave will not be reduced.
So......We're going to make you take comp time, instead of paying you, then we're not going to let you use up all the comp time you have banked because we're too busy, short handed, blah blah blah and then instead of allowing you to roll it over since you earned it, we're just going to make it disappear and we won't have to pay you after all. Gee, I guess it sucks to be you.
Once again, I tried to help by offering sound advice and valid information.
Good luck and goodbye
No your information is not valid and again it is obvious you don't work at the ECSO or you would know that that portion of the contract has already been rescinded because of the PBA's complaints. You also don't seem to be aware that the PBA board merely negotiates a contract. The entire ECSO (everyone covered by the contract at least) gets to vote on the contract. If the members say no it's back to negotiations or mediation. Here are those results from the last contract taken of the PBA website:
Deputy Sheriffs 142 For 43 Against
Law Enforcement Supervisors 64 For 8 Against
Detention Deputies 163 For 6 Against
Detention Supervisors 25 For 2 Against
Direct Support 179 For 13 Against
That means almost 87% of the ECSO approved the contract that their collective bargaining unit negotiated.
I don't expect you to know this because you beleive everyone at the ECSO walks around all day bitter at everyone including the union.
Secondly read this from:
http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/opinion/FLSANA/2005/2005_11_04_13NA_FLSA.htm
November 4, 2005 FLSA2005-13NA
Dear Name*,
This is in response to your inquiry concerning the application of section 7(o) of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), 29 U.S.C. § 207(o), to county employees. You state that the county compensates employees working statutory overtime hours by furnishing compensatory time off (“comp time”) pursuant to FLSA § 7(o).
Before addressing your specific questions, it might be helpful to review the prerequisites for the use of comp time in lieu of cash overtime payments. In order to use comp time, an agreement or understanding (“agreement”) must be reached prior to the performance of work. 29 U.S.C. § 207(o)(2)(A); 29 C.F.R. § 553.23. For purposes of this response, we assume that County employees do not have a recognized collective bargaining agent or other representative designated by the employees.
Where employees do not have a recognized or otherwise designated representative, the agreement concerning comp time must be between the county and the individual employee and must be reached prior to the performance of work. In this regard, you ask two questions.
Q.1. If the County personnel regulations inform employees that comp time will be furnished in lieu of cash overtime payment and employees are informed of comp time during orientation meetings and at the time of hire, will the “notice” requirements in 29 CFR § 553.23(c) be met?
A.1. Yes. As indicated in § 553.23(c), “an agreement or understanding may be evidenced by a notice to the employee that compensatory time off will be given in lieu of overtime pay.” The county could accomplish its notice requirements by providing employees copies of the county’s personnel regulations, by orientation prior to the performance of work, and notification at time of hire. See Opinion Letter dated April 1, 1994 (copy enclosed).
Q.2. Once the employee has been hired and given notice, as stated above, will the “agreement” last for the duration of employment with the County?
A.2. Yes. An “agreement” to provide comp time “may take the form of an express condition of employment provided (i) the employee knowingly and voluntarily agrees to it as a condition of employment and (ii) the employee is informed that the compensatory time received may be preserved, used or cashed out consistent with the provisions of section 7(o) . . . In such a case, an agreement or understanding would be presumed to exist for purposes of section 7(o) with respect to any employee who fails to express to the employer an unwillingness to accept compensatory time off in lieu of overtime pay.” 29 C.F.R. § 553.23(c)(1) (emphasis added). See also Opinion Letter dated April 1, 1994. Such condition could last for the duration of employment unless renegotiated by the parties. See Smith v. Upson County, 859 F. Supp. 1504, 1509 (M.D. Ga. 1994).
This opinion is based exclusively on the facts and circumstances described in your request and is given on the basis of your representation, express or implied, that you have provided a full and fair description of all the facts and circumstances that would be pertinent to our consideration of the question presented. Existence of any other factual or historical background not contained in your letter might require a conclusion different from the one expressed herein. You have represented that this opinion is not sought by a party to pending private litigation concerning the issue addressed herein. You have also represented that this opinion is not sought in connection with an investigation or litigation between a client or firm and the Wage and Hour Division or the Department of Labor.
We trust that the above is responsive to your inquiry.
Sincerely,
Barbara Relerford
Office of Enforcement Policy
Fair Labor Standards Team
Being that the comp time was being given long before the PBA negotiated the first contract, it has always been past pratctice which you are so quick to dismiss. ECSO meets all these requiremets in this opinion. If you ever worked there you would've known this. So much for your definition of "agreement". Would it be nice to have the option of cash or comp? Sure. Is the management (or any management) ever likely to give this up in negotiations? Not without a heavy price.
differenceofopinion- why do you care so much about us and our comp time? you belittle us and then you stick your two cents in.. the comp time issue is a huge problem, PBA is working on it.. it has grown to a size where it is now a 500 lbs gorilla... thanks for your input..but I don't know why your so passionate about our agency and yet you don't work here?
He plans to if Morgan wins, and then he will ride around in your cruiser and film his tv show.
If you kept up,read your office e-mail,or were just awake long enough to here some one else speak rather just quote the laws according to you. You would be aware that the PBA presented a MOU to the Sheriff and had that clause removed. They(meaning admin) had to admit there was no way to take your time.
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