Your Sheriff is a *******

I can suspending some involved in the crash box derby. But you suspend a guy for responding as a back up? And couldnt you single out a few directly involved in stead of 13 deputies? The Hernando County Sheriff is a total *****. I'd be looking for a job elsewhere ASAP. In stead of punishing all your guys may be you should give them better driving instruction. Jack Azz.

yeah, we know. try working for him. sad fact is we're stuck with him for 5 more years.

SHERIFF , WHY DONT YOUR DEPUTIES GET MORE THAN THE BARE CJST FDLE ACADEMY DRIVING INSTRUCTION? YOU SHOULD GET OFF YOUR RUMP AND BUILD A POLICE PAD THAT THE GUYS CAN TRAIN ON.

This is pathetic!
It is the cost of doing business. This is law enforcement after all!

Give the deputies a medal. A few cars go damaged? oh well, the cars are a tool. They can be fixed.
Teach your deputies on how to perform a PIT maneuver.

http://forums.leoaffairs.com/viewtopic.php?t=40741

Lets reward all criminals that drive hard and fast with their freedom. Now let's punish all the Deputy's for chasing this guy cause God know's every time a Deputy drives fast it's gonna cause a fatal car crash. Give me a break, as soon as someones nuts drop, maybe you will be alloyed to chase criminals again. Until then enjoy the shade under your favorite tree becasue it doesn't pay to try and make a difference.

SAD PART IS THAT NUGENT NEVER WORKED THE ROAD IN HIS LIFE AND EVEN KNOW WHATS ITS LIKE DEALING WITH PEOPLE

FYI all of these deputies just completed 8 hours of training in DRIVING and the POLICY review this year. PLUS the Capt of patrol had everyone review the same policy 3 months ago. They SCREWED up and the reason the Sgt was suspended was because the deputies in this chase were not truthful in reporting the SPEEDS to him. It was WRONG for what they did. And by the way they did it to them selfs. Thank God no was killed in this incident. Pinellas County has its own problems you can deal with them and we will take care of our own.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Oh by the was the policy has not changed they can still pursue they just need to follow the rules. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

They SCREWED up and the reason the Sgt was suspended was because the deputies in this chase were not truthful in reporting the SPEEDS to him.



Refernce your comment,
They suspended the Sgt because they were not truthful to him. That is why your Sheriff"s invetsigation and suspensions is soooooo way off. I do agree that every PD and SO has it's own issues. And if your going to punish or send a message do it to the ones directly involved. Back-up Deputies, that was Weak. They only thing he accomplished was setting your morale and attitude back. Thats it.
IMOP
Be safe
TPD

Why punish the Sgt. when grown men and women are the deputies purposely lying to him about their speeds? Nugent get some balls and stop looking for a fall guy like always!

The Sgt is in charge he is responable.... Bottom Line Nugent did the right thing. Km you need the whole story not what the St. Pete Time wrote :D :x :x :x :

To PINELLIS COP sounds like a member of the command staff. Punish one Sergeant because HIS PEOPLE weren't truthful; what about the other Sgt who was an active particpant that recieved no punishment? Is this because he tried to call off a couple of units (but still had time to try and put down stop sticks), meanwhile another deputy who responded and was NOT a participant loses a day; Please explain the FUll story behind this command staff member, so we can quell all of the speculation.

Oh i forgot to add that one of the previous Sgts even took another Sgt.s car and radio # for being a ratboy.Joke..thankk god i only have a few years left.

IN this day and age, the chase should have been cancelled. Sgt should have called it and deputies who violated policy dealt with only.
Too many rogue cops, its not like the old days!

What's the reason for the media being notified. Why throw all those names into the newspaper? There is no reason to have a press conference on this issue. Anyone that runs from the police should be chased. That guy could have just killed his family. Just take a look at that trooper that pulled over that idiot who killed his 2 kids, ex wife and her partner. Based on FHP policy he wouldn't have been able to chase if that guy ran because the trooper didn't know who he was stopping.

Suspended 13 guys for this is going way too far. Now this goes into their files. Now we have less officers on the road for those given days.

Don't second guess yourself because this happened. Second guessing will get you or someone innocent hurt or killed.

Bottom line my fellow LEO brothers and Sisters, Did they (13) Deputies go through a yearly block training required by FDLE on pursuit driving, and policies of HCSO? Were they schooled on this topic by trained instructors within their own agency? Did they sign a document UNDERSTANDING THE POLICY? Need I say more on this ragged topic!

Oh, by the way, I heard - from a inside source that this suspect was known to all as a local thug--they know him, they know where he resides.. This crucial information was known about him even before the chase actually began!! So why even chase him? You can always walk a warrant through the very next day! This suspect didn't commit a forcible felony!

I say, stop looking to blame Sheriff Nugget, and stop for a minute and realize the totality of the entire situation. If you're mature enough, you'll see it clear that this was nothing more then senseless, immature thinking behind the wheel for 13 deputies from start to finish.

Stop your whining and *****ing to the FOP - Their there to help you if you're in a JAM, but this was clearly a gross violation of the pursuit policey!!

Hey 23 yrs on the job.....what excatly is the pursuit policy? Do you know? When was the last time you read it? According to the policy, no violations occurred. This policy is so broad that anything you do in a pursuit can be scrutinized by the Sheriff or anyone of the higher ups, which is more likely to happen. I believe it is that broad because then they can "knee-jerk" react and suspend people at will and tell the press all about it.

They will never put anything in black and white on what to do because then they dont have a scapegoat.Even for certain calls,if someone complains then you are scrutinized.

Guest,

Are you here in this forum to dispute the policy? or Dispute the real fact that this chase wasnt necessary? You fire back a statement saying, and I'll quote you here "This policy is so broad that anything you do in a pursuit can be scrutinized by the Sheriff or anyone of the higher ups, which is more likely to happen" With that being said - take a step back and realize what I said in my first post. I said, Why even chase him if they knew him, knew where he resides and most important, did he commit any forcible felony? The chase wasn't necessary for listed reasons. Its just comes right down to " Is this going to effect me later after all the Monday night quarterbacking "Knee Jerking"? Truly guys, this chase should have ended 30 seconds after it started. Realize that a policy is nothing more then a living document, and for those that understand what Im saying here, please chime in and help the newer LEOs to understand for future decision making. Once again, I agree with you about the policy being broad, same is true where I work right now-policy books are nothing more than a guide line. But with that being said, there has to be some common sense in the person behind the wheel too--some where during that chase, one of you had to slap yourself and say "Ohhh shit! This is bad, this is going to go down bad in the end" -- Thats common sense talking to you!

Just so you know, I did work for HCSO a long time ago. Most of your administrators that you have now were my zone partners back in the day. I worked the road many years, and during that time I was a FTO. I was the hardest FTO the agency had back in those days - there are some that road with me that are now your supervisors, and believe me I didn't cut anyone slack. I had a couple topics that i drilled into my recruits, report writing, never give up your gun- with many scenarios, and vehicle pursuits. The vehicle pursuits I drilled into them to use common sense-I always told them to "weight the moment-minus the rush-and is it worth it in the very end"

The problem I see today - even with my agency, is that you have rookies as FTOs. Some FTOs today are less then 2 or 3 years on the road and they're teaching the new guys coming in. How in the world can a new guy get a thorough understanding from a rookie FTO. Its ridiculous!

When that deputy crashed his patrol car into that Lexus truck and injured those two people the chase became a focible felony.

Same way those two idiots were charged with the murder of two troopers after they crashed into trees and died.

Guest,

This is going no where. I cant get you to understand that the "Initial reasons for the chase" were the crucial determining point to cease-end the pursuit. It wasn't necessary to chase this vehicle and or KNOWN suspect from the very beginning! Just because they crashed doesn't make it CORRECT or RIGHT to chase. It should have ended long before the crash. Civil Court is going to have a field day. The families of that Lexus will prevail.

Who ever you are "Guest" I truly hope your a rookie, and can walk away from all this with some knowledge to bestow upon future LEOs. If your a senior deputy of HCSO, I sincerely hope you're not one of my recruits from back in the day. I know I didn't teach you reckless and disregard for the general public.

I left HCSO in 1995

To 23 years on the job...ref your comment: It wasn't necessary to chase this vehicle and or KNOWN suspect from the very beginning!


The driver was not the suspect...someone totally different. I do agree that the chase should have been monitored better and called off when it became dangerous to others. As for the speed of deputy vehicles which I saw posted in different sections...they are monitored as well. Personally I think way too many deputies were suspended - no need to take it out on everyone, especially since most were doing their job and were allowed to continue. Unfortunately, only 1 sergeant was reprimanded when 2 districts were involved.

No body special,

I agree in whole with you on your response. Its truly sad that, that many LEO 's were punished. Im very aware of your speed(s) being monitored. Our agency has the very same monitoring system. Technology is very much becoming the BIG BROTHER! But, when the dust settles and all is said and done, it just comes down to one thing, one blame, one responsibility, and thats the driver of each vehicle. You have to be honest with me here and see through this for which its painted! Common Sense!

Thats my post above this one. I forgot to put my name in the blank..

The sheriff did the right thing, He had all of the FACTS he had policy and training sheets for this year that showed that each of these people were trained in the pursuit policy. (and by the way he can do his own investigations because he is the one that order an investigation)Let's chase a stolen RENTAL car. For what reason???? Let's destroy four cruisers at a cost of $20,000.00 for some jack off in a RENTAL CAR do the math...23 years on the job is right and these guys are lucky that they did not KILL them selfs or someone else....Unless you have the BALLS to go to the Sheriff and tell him he is wrong. Stop hiding behind this message board.

Oh, by the way, I heard - from a inside source that this suspect was known to all as a local thug--they know him, they know where he resides.. This crucial information was known about him even before the chase actually began!! So why even chase him? You can always walk a warrant through the very next day! This suspect didn't commit a forcible felony!

I was involved in that incident and for your information the suspect info that was in the bolo wasn't the same guy driving the car. Sorry to burst your bubble there. I understand that pursuing deputies did violate policies but to be this harsh for us doing our jobs....

I also think it was unfair to suspend the deputies that responded to intersections to block traffic. That warrants a day off ??????

To Let It Go, the sheriff had all the facts? Thats funny, I was one of the the deputies sitting in the room with the sheriff when he gave us the speech. He gave one deputy the day off for responding to the chase on his M.D.T. and not broadcasting his responce on PTL1. If you do work with us you would know it is not possible to dispatch yourself to a call on the M.D.T. and if the sheriff pulled the audio tapes from PTL1 they would have heard him state that he was the very first unit to check out with the chase. That is the only thing that the sheriff could make up because the deputy's AVL wasn't working. The sheriff also tried to fry him for his AVL not working and had the garage staff and tech support investigate wheather he tampered with it. Its sad when he had to make up reasons to give guys time off.

Hey depd1,

So you agree that you violated policy? Thats a start, thats where the learning curve comes into play. Now learn from this and realize that its not about mass punishment. Its too bad you dont like the mass punishment, but thats life in the sheriff's office. You either go with the flow and take it on the chin, or I hear the world needs more Bar Tenders!!

Keep in mind sport! That running your vehicles at high rates of speed, chasing a sig-10 What the hell were you guys thinking?? Okay Okay I give you the fact that you were trying to do your job, but (here I go again explaining this) COMMON SENSE has to be a part of decision making.

Just ask yourself this one question, during that chase did it ever cross your mind, flash before your eyes, a beam of light--thinking -- THIS DOESNT LOOK GOOD!! Somewhere in your gut did you get this feeling of "OH SHIT" If it did, then someday my fellow LEO you'll make a good supervisor, and or FTO.

You violated POLICY Period.....

I'll admit that I got tunnel vision and was focused on catching the bad guy. I'm a big boy and will face my punishment. My actions were mine and I have no problem taking my time off but for the other guys that had no involvement in the chase and responded to the area to block intersections, they did not deserve to get the time off.

Then just worry about yourself....It is water under the bridge...Happy New Year :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lets just get the mind set that we need to be security guards like we have been.HOW U LIKE ME KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAPPY NEW YEARS

I'm not a member of HSO, but I am a Line Supervisor with a local agency. I recently attended a Middle Management course that included a block of instruction from an attorney. The attorney really opened my eyes regarding police pursuits. He recommended that police NEVER pursue the bad guy. I personally don't agree with this, but the liability is so great you have to ask, is this Sig-10 really worth chasing? My answer is no, and my people will never chase a Sig-10. Some may call this weak or spineless, but when you assume the role of a Line Supervisor, you have a responsibility to protect the agency from liability. In my 18 plus years of experience, a vehicle pursuit usually ends in two ways, a crash, or a crash and bail. Just my two cents.

Are you at bpd?

sounds a little gun shy to me, should be case by case, just like the policy states, must be a new supervisor. the attorney you were instructed by sounds like an ACLU card carrying ***** !! Just my two cents!!

Guys,just answer your calls and go home.Thats what the agency wants here. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm not a member of your Dept. and I'm not familiar with this case. But here's my two cents anyway. We live in a world of lawyers. The fastest way to be charged criminally and civilly is to get involved in an unauthorized police chase that goes bad. This is not the old days. Get with the program. When it comes to chases DON'T. Say to yourself I'll get you next time. You get keep your job and your house. Just a reminder how would you feel if your wife and/or kids were killed in an unauthorized police chase. Just food for thought. I don't want any of you to be hurt yourselves or lose your jobs. When the public demand we chase then the policy will be modified. Stay safe and back each other up.

Bottom line is it was 6 p.m. on a weekday in spring hill...if one of you caused my family to wreck i'd have your ass.

[LUKE FRAZIER]

all in all I really can't understand spending this kind of money chasing a car that maybe is worth $1000 or something like that. And it's not like it was hard to find the person that had taken it. They knew exactly who had stolen the car, and it's not like they had hostages in the car or someone they had kidnapped. And for chases and stuff like this, isn't that what we spend millions of taxpayer dollars on for helicopters and one fixed wing aircraft for the primary purpose of tracking and pursuits i don't care what kind of car you have its pretty hard to outrun a helicopter that can do 180 miles an hour direct and not only that people could have been killed if a normal citizen had driven a car at those kind of speeds. They would be buried underneath the jail, and probably got some kind of 20 year sentence in front of one of Hernando's judgesfor reckless endangerment