Final Union Negotiation

In your mailbox most of you have found three different explanations of the contract that is now going to be put to vote. First and foremost let me thank all of the reps involved as well as FOP staff and those officers that took the time to come to the negotiations and show their support. In the current financial situation that the city is facing we all went into this negotiation with little hope of reaching an agreement that we can all live with. We accomplished more than anticipated and I would like to point out some key things we were able to accomplish.

1) Sick time is back at 96 hours on October 1st with the same payout at the end of the year.
2) Increased comp bank to 60 hours
3) A holiday bank up to 32 hours
4) No loss of vacation overage
5) Funeral leave was amended to not require attendance at a service in the event of the death of a spouse, domestic partner, sibling, child or parent. The time off for this leave has been increased to 40 hours.

If you look at the rest of the contract not much changed. Although the pay increases are not up to standards, there is a re-opener for pay after the legislative session in January 2008. This is a good position to be in. Regardless if we choose to reopen or not, the 3% in year two is the minimum we can receive. I ask that all of you to look at the totality of what has been agreed upon and determine if they are right for you. We believe that the pay is not going to get any better regardless of the outcome of the vote. If we fail to ratify then we will be at impasse. If we go down this road then we will get a contract imposed on us by council without any increase in the items listed above. I implore you to look at this contract and everything that was gained. Although we started this negotiation with the city taking things away, we did not lose any benefits; we gained or added to them to make them better.

Please educate yourself on what is to be agreed upon and then make the decision that is right for you, not only now, but in the long run.

Please contact any representative for clarification.

Adam, this post makes it sound like we got "Wins" across the board with the exception of the pay issue. I didn't see anything about the vacation payout being paid out at a rate of ...what was it?...oh, yeah 1/2. And just how long will it take to build up 300 hrs? Try about 3 years or more. I also don't see anything about having to stay home when we're sick? Well, what if you are not "sick" but have something wrong with you that prevents you from winning a gunfight or a fight where someone is trying to kill you? We are not "Tree Men", we are cops who must have their game face 100% on every time we walk out of the door to go to work.

So, if I had a minor surgery on my foot or "strong" hand, or pulled a groin or whatever, I am to be sequestered at home? That is rediculous. Granted we have our fair share of idiots here, just like any profession, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find even our dumbest one taking paint balls to his or her genetalia when they just called in! And while we're at it....when does this X15 at home end? At 4 if i am on days, midnight if I am on eves or 7 for mids? Or, let me guess, I have to stay locked in my house until I report back to work right? I am just dying to know how this going to work. One good thing though, with 4-5 supervisors only having to supervise 4 or 5 officers on some days, you should have plenty of corporals to be the Sick Police and do house checks to see who is at home. Maybe with the gas prices being as they are, we could just buy 5 or 6 ankle bracelets for the sickly officer to wear so that we can track his or her movements during this time. Oh, wait until you get on one of their bad sides......I can see the games beginning now........

The fact is this, they gave us ****, and unless you plan on being a corporal soon, which I am sure you will, there is NO REASON to vote for this lump of $hit. It is an insult to all who work here. For those of you who plan to post your typical "If you don't like it just leave..." responses, save your time. I promise you, I am working on it and in due time you will get your wish and most of you will become a little bit bigger fish in this tiny little pond.

:)

Thank you for clarifying to the rest of us your position. I will not have to take you into account when I make my decision because you will apparently not be staying so good luck to you, I hope your grass is greener. I wish you the best of luck finding a job in the current market since most agencies are enjoying hiring freezes right now due to tax cuts and the uncertainty of the tax issue for next year. However, you could go to Pasco. Enjoy your pay cut. Sorry your record is likely such where Corporal or advancement elsewhere is not likely to occur for you anytime soon. Of course with your attitude, I can't see why you haven't advanced.

I would venture a guess based on your disdain for the corporals and what sounds like a general dislike for our agency (and perhaps yourself...just a guess) we will be better off without your negativity. Oops, did I violate your order not to tell you to leave. Yeah, sorry about that...

However, I must point out one error that you made... I learned today that due to some last minute negotiations, the vacation payout percentage is 100% not 50%. Also the hours are still at 200. Please come prepared to discuss the correct facts on your rebuttal posting which I will be anxiously awaiting.

As for staying home or somewhere else when your sick, yeah that is completely unreasonable. I mean can you image the gall of the people who are paying you not to be at work to actually expect you are at home getting better. Crazy I know. It's pretty simple, don't be stupid and get caught during your work hours apparently not sick somewhere that causes others to question your truthfulness. I don't think it takes a tree man to figure that out. Oh by the way, if you had a minor foot surgery or strong hand surgery, you likely will be required to report to light duty so this won't really be an issue. We will get to see your shining face happily serving our customers from records. I sure the girls would be thrilled to have your positive outlooks around making their day that much brighter.

As for the corporals, please come up with a better argument, your position is tiring and one not supported by the majority of officers. Many would like the opportunity someday for the position, but thanks for trying to eliminate our future promotional opportunities. Sorry you will be unable to achieve it. But hey, I am sure some other agency has some under achieving position on a midnight shift somewhere where you can try flying under the radar and do as little as you can.

Just let me know if I can help you fill out your applications.

Thank you for clarifying to the rest of us your position. I will not have to take you into account when I make my decision because you will apparently not be staying so good luck to you, I hope your grass is greener. I wish you the best of luck finding a job in the current market since most agencies are enjoying hiring freezes right now due to tax cuts and the uncertainty of the tax issue for next year. However, you could go to Pasco. Enjoy your pay cut. Sorry your record is likely such where Corporal or advancement elsewhere is not likely to occur for you anytime soon. Of course with your attitude, I can't see why you haven't advanced.

I would venture a guess based on your disdain for the corporals and what sounds like a general dislike for our agency (and perhaps yourself...just a guess) we will be better off without your negativity. Oops, did I violate your order not to tell you to leave. Yeah, sorry about that...

However, I must point out one error that you made... I learned today that due to some last minute negotiations, the vacation payout percentage is 100% not 50%. Also the hours are still at 200. Please come prepared to discuss the correct facts on your rebuttal posting which I will be anxiously awaiting.

As for staying home or somewhere else when your sick, yeah that is completely unreasonable. I mean can you image the gall of the people who are paying you not to be at work to actually expect you are at home getting better. Crazy I know. It's pretty simple, don't be stupid and get caught during your work hours apparently not sick somewhere that causes others to question your truthfulness. I don't think it takes a tree man to figure that out. Oh by the way, if you had a minor foot surgery or strong hand surgery, you likely will be required to report to light duty so this won't really be an issue. We will get to see your shining face happily serving our customers from records. I sure the girls would be thrilled to have your positive outlooks around making their day that much brighter.

As for the corporals, please come up with a better argument, your position is tiring and one not supported by the majority of officers. Many would like the opportunity someday for the position, but thanks for trying to eliminate our future promotional opportunities. Sorry you will be unable to achieve it. But hey, I am sure some other agency has some under achieving position on a midnight shift somewhere where you can try flying under the radar and do as little as you can.

Just let me know if I can help you fill out your applications.

The possible new contract is better than I thought! Well since contract issues are pretty much over, lets talk about some fanatsy football. My first pick was S. Jackson. My recievers suck but I hope I can make some trades. OUT!

David Boston is likely still available....

I see once again the FOP is trying to sell the members of this agency on a contract that is well below what is deserved. Adam stop trying to sell the contract and just tell the members what they are getting or not getting. You did this last time and we all know how that contract worked out for everyone. What happened to the pay study that you asked for after the last contract? Why did the city not set aside the funds to bring this agency up to the fourth or five highest paid agency in the county? They only had three years to do this, and it's not like they didn't know it was coming. Did you ask them about this? I woud guess not!

All the city did this year is what they do every time, which is threaten to take away things we already had and then give them back, to try and make you feel better about the zero pay you are getting. I don't see this as a victory when you keep something you already had to begin with. [b]TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW THREE SGT'S WENT TO CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS THIS WEEK AND ASKED THEM ABOUT THE VACTATION PAYOUT, AND HOW IT WAS SAID IN CONTRACT MEETINGS THAT THEY DID NOT WANT US TO HAVE THE VACATION PAYOUT. THOSE CITY COUNCIL MEMEBERS STATED THEY NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT, AND IT WAS EXPOSED THAT THE CITY MANAGER AND HIS NEGOTIATIONS TEAM HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT LIE TO THE FOP THE ENTIRE TIME. TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW MAD THE CITY'S NEGOTIATION TEAM WAS WHEN THEY WERE CALLED OUT ON THE CARPET ABOUT THAT. What happened next? Oh that's right you got your vacation cap back down to 200 and full payout. Funny what happens when you find out that the city is doing nothing but covering up what money they really have and when confronted about they came up with the money.

Stand up to them and stop force feeding these crap contracts down the members throats. Adam, I'm glad that your happy once again that our health insurace cost went up again, the cost of living in every county is up again, along with homeowners insurance and how our 2.5% raise this year won't cover the cost increase of any of those things. Let's not forget that the city only offered the one choice of health plans this year, instead of letting people choose from additonal plans. Another win for the members of this agency, Right?

I know that you all work hard on the contract, but stop trying sell what we all know to be crap, and for once let's stand up to the city. Three years ago the city said they woud make up the pay for us and they made no plans during those three years to make this happen. Let's not forget about the money they spent on repairing the PD that they knew for years was falling apart. I woud like to have the money they spent on the building and all the money that was spent getting us out and back into the building.

Let's stand as one group against the city and demand what we deserve!

Severely reduced pay for everyone!!! Come on everybody, sing it with me now!

olay olay olay olay olay olay olay olay

feeling hot hot hot
feeling hot hot hot
feeling hot hot hot
feeling hot hot hot

my butt's on fire
my wallet's on fire
feeling hot hot hot
party police
all around me
feeling hot hot hot
what to do with a contract like this
pay so sweet I can't resist
we need a party song
so with a rum bum bum
let me rum bum bum bum

CHORUS olay olay olay olay olay olay olay olay
let me rum bum bum bum
let me rum bum bum bum
feeling hot hot hot
feeling hot hot hot

see parkers stealing
yeah parkers robbing
feeling hot hot hot
keep the spirit
come on let's do it
feeling hot hot hot
wallets in the air
celebration time
the low pay can't erase you mind
we have this contract song
a fundamental jam
so we can rum bum bum bum
yeah we rum bum bum bum

CHORUS

people in the party hot hot hot
Pinellas Park in the party hot hot hot
City Council in the party hot hot hot
Police in the party hot hot hot......

...Now just the City Manager, sing it CM!

olay olay olay olay olay olay olay olay
big raise for me
little raise for for you
feeling hot hot hot
feeling hot hot hot

Now everybody jump in da line! The welfare line!

feeling hot hot hot
feeling hot hot hot

Boat drinks at the cartoon tie's house!

hot hot hot!

It amazes me when I read the responses to the issues that were brought to our attention. Adam, thanks for at least telling us where we stand.

Through the years that I have worked here I have also heard the same thing about getting our pay up. But I am not upset at the result of the contract because THERE IS NO MONEY. If we attempt to stand firm on wanting more money then you can kiss everthing else goodbye. IS this a good contract, I don't know. Is it good for me, Yes. Would I like more money, of course I would but you know what, this year its not gonna happen. Look at the gains. While minor, I agree with what I have heard and read and there was nothing taken away. PLus we have a re-opener for pay so it looks like it won't be so bad.

The best part about the naysayers in this agency is that if the raise was 10% and we were #1 in the county it still wouldn't be enough. Some people are never happy and thats too bad. If you became a cop to get rich boy were you sadly mistaken. Remember why you became a cop and everything else will follow. Find out everything you can by asking people what the pros and cons are before coming on here and having nothing at all good to say.

And I will say what no one else has, Perry, Cheese, John, Brian, and Rick THANK YOU>

Do not come on here and bash any of the reps for sitting down with the city for the past six months working on this contract while you sat at home drinking your beer or kool-aid whatever. If you think the contract is crap, vote no, but don't come on here and bash A.G. or anyone else who worked for us.

Bottom line, contract pay isn't what we deserve but the rest is good. The City has indicated a willingness to attempt to move us up where we deserve (and yes, I realize they said it last time, but I doubt anyone three years ago predicted tax rollbacks and referendum votes...It is hard to plan for something like that unless you have a crystal ball) I have news for you, next year may be a worse time....but the truth will be clearly visible because every agency in the state will be suffering, just like today. Trying to fight for more money right now will be fruitless due to the tax rollback and from what I read on other boards, it has hit every police department in the state. It just sucks we had to negotiate our contract in the same time period as the Rubio / Christ anti tax campaign. and I voted for them....

Thanks for everyones hard work. A.G. you are stand up guy. Thanks for your efforts, despite what any one one person may think.

I agree with the previous poster that A.G. is a stand up guy. He has always been there to help me or answer any questions I may have had. I think they are beating up on A.G. becuase he had the balls to come on here, use his name, and tell us what was what. I will not go into the pros and cons because most of you will make up your own minds. I just wanted to thank everyone who was involved in the contract for their effort.

As some of you are aware I participated in serveral of the negotiation sessions and gave my opinion on several of the issues that were put on the table.

Going into the contract, the City told us that we, meaning the FOP, would have to possibly decide whether to lay off people or get a raise. No doubt that statement, at least in my opinion, was a veiled threat. However, the tone was set whereby if you believed what the City was claiming, you would expect them to go bankrupt in the next few months. We knew that the City was painting a picture of doom and gloom in preparation of giving us a pitiful pay package. And yes, the pitiful pay package was ultimately put on the table along with several other benefits that were proposed to be "eliminated." We knew that the elimination of some of those benefits was just a typical, negotiation 101 tactic, whereby they take away in the begining and give at the end so that the Union felt they were "getting" something.

What we also knew was that the City was going to give us a 2.5% "raise" at some point. That was also something that ultimately was proposed late in the negotiation sessions. The whopping 2.5% raise, now 3.0%, brings you up, sorry I mean keeps you at 10th in the County as far as pay goes when compared to other agencies. The only other agencies below you are Kenneth City, which is currently in negotiation, and Indian Shores Police Department.

Now, the City will tell you, at least without laughing too hard, that you should be thankful that you have a job and are getting 3%. They will also feed you the notion that certain "benefits" that you enjoy are not found in other departments. Although that is a true statement in some respect, the bottom line is that you will likely have less in your pocket this year as opposed to last year after you figure in the cost-of-living increase. Oh, and I might add that the enormous savings in property taxes, another good one, is negligible at best. The savings associated with that might get you a dinner and night out at the movies if you are lucky.

So you sit here and criticize the FOP reps for negotiating a contract that you feel is worthless? May I remind you that not only was every person on that team dedicated to getting the best contract possible, they had your best interest in mind. I have worked with several reps in the past and must say that the negotiating team did a great job representing FOP members. I am always amazed at the bashing by some people about the end result. Don't bash us. I would rather you just appreciate the hard work and dedication that the reps provide.

Now, you ask if I feel that this contract is "good" and fair? I think everyone knows the answer to that one. If you think that being 10th in the County in pay is fair, then sign on the dotted line when it comes to a vote. If you don't like it, then vote no. It's your choice, but don't sit here and complain about our reps and the negotiation process.

I will agree with one of the above posters that eventually you have to stand up and say no and call the City on the carpet. I have no problem declaring impasse if the membership as a whole wants to draw a line in the sand. However, be prepared to deal with the consequences should we ultimately not prevail. And if you vote the contract down, then this is the time we test the impasse process. Either way it is your choice.

Ken no one can ever challenge your integrity or drive when it comes to defending the members of this agency or of the FOP. With that said I think you need to explain further the risks or impasse, in particular as it pertains to this city. The budget has been presented to council. Whether they go much further than the word of the city administrators is anyones guess. What I personally know is that IMPASSE IS A BAD IDEA. If we declare and lose then we are a bunch of spoiled cops. Yeah, thats a great position to be in. Council will impose a one year, no fills contract. I think we will lose all that was gained for us. I am voting yes on the contract and that is because I did my own informaiton gathering and I realize this is it. I would rather take what we have now and live to fight another day as opposed to getting an even worse situation imposed on us. Just food for thought, ITS NOT AS BAD as some make it out to be.

As you requested, the procedures involved with impasse are as follows:

1) You file with PERC (Publice Employees Relations Commission) stating that the City and Union have reached impasse.

2) Pursuant to Fla. Statutes, the next step is to select an arbitrator to hear the case. The City and Union then sit down and determine what issues are at impasse. Even articles that have been tentatively agreed upon can be subject to impasse, so nothing is set in stone. Once the issues have been defined, the arbitration is held. At the conclusion of the arbitration, no ruling is given. The arbitrator has 30 days to render an opinion and in some cases longer. Once the ruling, which is not binding on either party, has been issued, the Union and City can agree to the findings or reject them. If agreed to, it becomes part of a contract.

3) If rejected, the parties can try negotiating again or set the matter for public hearing in front of City Council. At the public hearing, you present your case, as does the City. At the conclusion, City Council makes a ruling that is binding on both parties. The decision of the Council is "imposed" against members of the Union for the remainder of the fiscal year. No contract is in existance when this happens, only the imposed conditions and status quo benefits.

4) You then continue negotiations while the "imposed" conditions are in effect.

This is a brief summary of the impasse procedure. As the previous poster indicated, there are no guarantees with anything when you declare impasse. All mandatory items of negotiation can be pulled off the table by either party, and thats the risk you take by rolling the dice.

Now, you have to ask yourself this question: In light of speculation and fear that each and every city is experiencing due to the tax "crises," would you be better off declaring impasse or taking the City's offer? The second question you have to ask is this: Do I want to place the decision in the hands of City Council?

If you answer yes to both, then impasse is the option you have available. However, you have to remember, during the 3-4 month process to complete the impasse procedure, you get no raise, including the step raise. And if you are ultimately successful at impasse, meaning getting any raise at all, retro would not be applied.

That said, the impasse procedure is not a "cure all" to express your dislike of the City's offer. It is more of a risky procedure for the Union than the City. And in light of the make-up of Council and their zealousness to cut the budget, do you think they will give you the pay raise you deserve?

Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions regarding impasse.

Thank you. Now I have a better appreciation and understanding of impasse. And no I do not want to take a chance and prolong this thing any further.

Be thankful for what you get and for what you already had. The tax issue is just beginning and budget concerns are real, legitimate, and most of all threatening to jobs. Green & White can still happen so be happy with what you have.

You are mis informed. PCSO has set a policy restricting use of take home cars. Only to work & back like us. So all agencies are cutting back.