Coming together

[DevilDogg]

Here's a positive note;

As I've read most of these posts from the beginning, I have noticed a trend.

Whenever some anon or other agency poster comes on here and tries to demean our agency, 99% of the time we all band together and blast the shite out of him. I think it is f-ing fantastic that we come together as brothers and defend our castle.

Now, lets take all that energy and put it toward OUR CASTLE!!!! :twisted:

It's kind of like seeing two Irish brothers beating the hell out of each other. Try and break it up, they will beat the hell out of you, call it a day and go to a pub for a couple of cold ones.

Our business is our business.

[five-o]

When it comes down to "it". We will stand as brothers regardless of likes or dislikes.

[five-o]

I forgot. Don't lie for a brother. It burns. You don't know how the other brother will lie. Just ask the guys from D2.

devil dog youre a sissy. i know who you are.

If you really knew who DevilDogg was, you would not be calling him a sissy. If you do know who he is and you think he is a sissy, say it to his face.

No cops lied in d2 - one got used by the admin as a wet boy.

Guest, apparently you didn't read the file,I did, they lied. People see you grab a guy by the throat and you say you didn't, you have lied. You stand next to a brother when he grabs a guy by the throat, and you say you didn't see it, you lied. 'nuff said.

I read the file and it was crap! 'nuff said.

[DevilDogg]

Not to hijack my own thread with talk about the IA from D-2, but, I read the file. Lying, I don't think so. No-one WANTS to rat out their brother, (Well, most REAL cops don't, and WON'T) sometimes you just take the hit and find somewhere else to work.

However, we have come together over the whole incident. If you know what I mean. 8)

[DevilDogg]

By the way, I do agree that one was used and abused, kicked to the curb, and the "opinion" of one man was the deciding factor in his firing.

Zone, thanks for the back-up. Your one of the few that still practice what you preach.

Guest, you got me, I'm a sissy.

DevilDogg,
I think we should think about making a thread for the D-2 incident. My only concern with that would be certain people upstairs watching us (Sgt level).

I like threads.

devildogg, nobody wants to rat out a brother. But, it takes way more courage to come forward and say what happened, or at least when asked, to say what happened than it does to not "rat" someone out. Twenty years ago, I took the oath, and it meant something. To remain silent, or dodging and weaving your way through an ia doesn't fit with upholding that oath. The two brothers that were honest should be praised; they were not the ones who put them in ia.

Guest1010-
Let'em watch us...who cares! Those sgts opinions don't count.

I believe the issue was that a subject "was choked unconscious", not merely "grabbed by the throat"...is there a difference?

There is a large difference. I don't think anyone would doubt something inappropriate took place, but that doesn't mean deputies (DEPUTY) in the room where it occurred did not see it. I believe it is very possible to NOT SEE a fellow deputy put his hands around someones kneck and push them to the bench because they stood up. I am sure deputies have done alot of inappropriate things in front of me before that I just didn't see because I was more consumed by other things going on.

Zone

devildogg is still a sissy, and you are the sissy's b*tch.

Guest,

Read the file. No one was "choked unconscious". Based on the file, there is nothing but speculation and opinion that someone lied. R.T. was fired, his career was pemanently ended, his wife and child were left without medical insurance simply because Scott W. had the opinion that RT was not telling the truth. And what was he not telling the truth about you may ask? He did not see the "choking" take place. Keep in mind that there were other witnesses that saw the incident and gave statements about what they saw. If RT had, in fact, seen the incident, he would have just been one more statement; so, his account would not have changed the material nature of the case against the subject of the investigation. Is it possible to be in a room where something innappropriate occurs and not see it? Absolutely, some people don't won't to be party to the incident; so, they consciously avoid any involvement. It's arguable whether this is right or wrong, but remember, RT was fired, career ended, family without medical coverage, because one person opined that he lied. Scott W. must be perfect and uncomparable in his ability to conduct a polygraph. RT took and passed and "INDEPENDENT" polygraph.

Maybe it's time for a union at the CCSO to protect us from unappealable firings. Especially, when the appeals board is the same group of people that tendered the appealed discipline.

[Paradise]

A UNION…. Hold on while I pick myself off of the floor from laughing.

What a joke. You are naive if you think for one second a union can save your job.

A UNION HAS NO POWER IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.

Wake up FOPin2007, if you want to just give money away, give it to me. I can offer you the same thing the union has to offer…

I will challenge anyone to find an agency in Florida that has a message board at Leoaffairs who also has a union and show me where their “Members” are happy to have that union. Good luck hunting, most wished they never voted for the UNION. It is a waste of time and money.

I will say it again; A UNION HAS NO POWER IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA!!!

i have been away morning the loss of a dear friend. i would like too ask that all of the name calllling ---- biches and ect., ---- be stopped. we should bee abel to disscuss here witout all the name calling and personall attackks.

as for the comments here bout unions and prb and chokin in d-2 for me it commes back full circle = time for a new sherifff and an new adminstration.

Ow....my feelings are hurt......

Paradise.....obviously you don't understand what the FOP is or does! Ask Billy P. who initiated an account for he and his family. Ask several charities who provided them with gifts, money and personal visits from FOP members and their families and pets at Christmas time and raised the spirits of the elderly and dying of Collier County.....are you going to bash other civic organizations next..Kiwanis, Knights of Columbus, Eagles, Masons.....we are all FRATERNAL Organizations....get over the Union talk.

Zone,

devil dogg may or may not be a sissy, but you sound more like a truck driver than a cop.

10-04 good buddy. keep them trucks a rolin.

ow.....my feelings were hurt again....

Zone,

Where are you from? My guess is somewhere in the Northeast. How's the pharmaceutical business?

legal eagle-

Yes, the union may do the warm and fuzzy stuff, but the worst part of the union all the other crap. The union had its place and time, now they are just destroying the country. Look at the big three auto makers, the airlines, coal mines, and the list goes on. Yes a united group can get things from their employer, but when the united benifits runs the business into bankrupcy, it has done a lot of good!!

Work hard, do your job, don't lie, uphold your oath... If you do that, you don't need a union...

Law Enforcement is not a business with a profit and loss statement. We have a budget not a profit margin effected by a union. Cannot compare to an auto or coal mining union.

Guest, yes I'am from the Northeast and yes I used to drive a truck for a living. But the pharmaceutical business? I don't get it.

[Paradise]

Law Enforcement is not a business with a profit and loss statement. We have a budget not a profit margin effected by a union. Cannot compare to an auto or coal mining union.

Law Enforcement IS a business. We must remain within our budget just like any business. There are no profit margins for non-profit businesses but they are still a business and still must operate within their budgets.

As far as having a budget not affected by a union, all unions affect the budget. It makes no difference if you are a business for profit or non-profit.

As far as comparing an auto or coal mining union to a police union; you are correct. Their union holds a single voice with power because they can legally go on strike to force a private owner in meeting their demands. A police union can not legally strike and therefore has a single voice with NO power; a waste of time and money.

A police union can not legally strike and therefore has a single voice with NO power; a waste of time and money.


Thanks for that info Jim, but there is much more to a union that just calling a strike. A union serves as a negotiating arm that is needed when an administration is totally out of touch with it's labor force, such as is the case in the CCSO. We're not just talking about negotiation of wages either. The union can provide legal representation to members who are brought up for investigation and once again, with the KGB (aka PRB) in operation in the CCSO that is a mighty big benefit to have. The union also serves as a lobbying arm in Tallahassee to help pass legislation that serves to protect the rights of officers and is helping to change the archaic servile system that has been in place in Florida sheriff's offices.
Of course the official administration line is that a union is a waste of time for the agency members because the sheriff is such a great benefactor. Maybe in the past, but since he has relinquished so much power to certain chiefs who have not achieved a level of maturity to handle that power, the workers here must unite (hence union) to protect their livelihoods and their families from the arbitrary vindictiveness of the current administration.

[Paradise]

Guest07,

First of all I am not Jim. If you are so concerned with who I am I will gladly post using my real name as soon as you do the same. If this is not an option then let’s go back to referring to each other by our screen names and stop the guessing game.

You say a union is a negotiating arm? Prove it. Name me ONE Florida Sheriff’s office that has a union in which the union negotiated better conditions, equipment, wages and a guarantee of employment. All I need is the name of ONE. Good luck looking for it because it does not exist. Look at all the Sheriff’s offices that have a union and EVERYONE states that it is a waste of time and money. In fact, it has created more problems than problems solved.

The union has lobbying power? Oh really, then why did the tax reform legislation pass? That single bill will do more harm to public service than any that I can think of. I did not see the union representatives talk to the house but I did see Sheriff Hunter pleading our case. Where is our 20 year retirement? Why hasn’t the unions lobbied for that? Come to think of it, what has the union lobbied for and had passed that I am now a beneficiary of?

If you want protection from PRB and the chiefs, may I suggest to you that you go to work, do your job, follow the rules and collect your check at the end of the day. Accepting personal responsibility for your actions and not relying on someone else to protect you from your own choice of poor decisions will go much further in protecting the livelihood of your family.

OH and if I should need a lawyer, I will hire one or use the free services of Mr. Day.

I will be waiting for your reply with the name of that single agency who’s members praise their union and have it better than CCSO.

[veteranrookie]

da*n, paradise. Sometimes you really get me all fired up with what you post and how you say it, but this time you really made a solid well thought out point (furthermore I agree). I commend you on the previous.. :wink:

[Paradise]

Thank you Veteranrookie. Maybe it is because I just woke up and I have not had a chance to get my first cup of egotistical coffee in me.

I will try to keep this side of me on a roll.

[Paparazzi LEO]

I also agree with what you stated Paradise. You hit the nail on the head. I too will be waiting to know which agency in this state has a union and has it better than us.

[Curios George]

EXACTLY :!: :!:

Paradise,
What is your grip with the FOP here at Collier County? It has done nothing to you or the administration thus far..no public airing of complaints or anything of that sort. What is wrong with a group of BROTHER/SISTER officers gathering to vent, discuss things and do good charity work? Don't you get it...TOGETHER the FOP and CCSO can make a positive influence on this community!!! Loosen your hatred on this group...

Binding arbitration.

Protection from arbitrary "justice".

[DevilDogg]

I came from an agency that had the FOP as their union representitive and it worked for that agency. But, the state of Florida is a "right to work" state. That being said, the FOP, PBA, Teamsters, or any other union has NO say in the workforce. We would need something called binding arbitration. Someone else said it, the florida Sheriffs Offices have an archaic view on certain things, namely the Union topic. But the fact still remains, we live in a right to work state. In other words, if you don't like the job, you can leave.

If you want to be part of a union, join up. There are some benefits to it, even at the SO. I firmly believe in some of what they represent, but it's not the answer here at the SO. There are just too many detractors.

fopin2007=pure genius

freee servises of mr day? isnt that an gratuity? how will shrriff hunter reaaaaaaaact?

Gentlemen and Ladies,

As I understand it from the FOP Leadership, there is no current plan to push for any type of collective bargaining or anything of the sort. Once again, from what I've observed and been told, they (the FOP) are a charity group of citizens helping in any way they can. Why do certain people have issues with that? I can't figure you detractors out! In my short time with CCSO I have been hearing about "family" amongst ourselves, but have seen very little family type love being displayed. So here the FOP comes riding in and begins with charity work and they get blasted from the top in fear of the word "union." There is NO justification for the hatred of this group..period!

It is not a matter of what the FOP is at current, it is a matter of what it wants to be. FOP does not want to exist as it is, it wants to be more powerful, it wants to be that barganing agent, it wants to negotiate for the masses. If wants to feed the union machine. If people wanted to do charity work, they would join the boy scouts or ring bells in front of publix at Christmas time.

I keep hearing the Union wants to make things better. How about some specifics...What can they actually do. Not what they think they can do or want to do (remember it is Florida), but what CAN they do that we don't have now?

I hear crickets

We are waiting to see how the FOP handles itself in situation that is currently under way. Their action, or lack of action, will define them in this county.

go tooda fop website and see for urself how maney shriffs offices have negotiated there contract wif da fop. THEN- call sum of doze guys and ask em how it is at there agency.

thereis quite a few !!!

Does anyone really think the FOP can "negotiate" more that what our sheriff has given us in the last couple of years? The twenty years I have been hear, our sheriff has squeezed every dime possible from the county commission. The FOP can "negotiate" all they want, the county commission has to approve everything. Are we supposed to believe the commissioners are going to be intimidated by the FOP and give more because they are involved? I give them a bit more credit than that.

and if the sheriff treats you unfairly who do you turn to? do you just hope he'll be fair? if he's not who is going to back you up? family? friends? shift?

[Paradise]

and if the sheriff treats you unfairly who do you turn to? do you just hope he'll be fair? if he's not who is going to back you up? family? friends? shift?

If this was a new Sheriff I might be concerned but since he has a very long track record supporting ALL of the employees of CCSO my money is on A001.

Next scare tactic...

Paradise, you are correct, our sheriff has a very good record of being fair. For the FOP supporters, suppose you do feel that the sheriff was unfair to someone, what is the union going to do? The union cannot force the sheriff to re-hire anyone or change the discipline for anyone. In all my years, I just haven't seen any situation where the sheriff has been unfair in discipline. If the FOP supporters have an example, I am willing to listen.

i guess you have read all the files and he is solomon...amazing that he can do no wrong...ashame after all these years he is just a sheriff....where is burhans....where is roche....steis left quickly after his kid got in trouble....salley and his kds od...salley and pm...lyn has no idea?jw...fidelity? and ur in prb? pictures are in the mail...

If you are willing to listen then go to the next FOP meeting. If not go away...

sometimes you just take the hit and find somewhere else to work. How many times can you pull that off? If you get canned for integrity reasons you may get one more shot, but only 1.

If it's you, your partner, and the hump, you may pull it off. Otherwise, let your buddy know you ain't giving up your paycheck to be stand up guy.

. I believe it is very possible to NOT SEE a fellow deputy put his hands around someones kneck and push them to the bench because they stood up. I am sure deputies have done alot of inappropriate things in front of me before that I just didn't see because I was more consumed by other things going on.

Google Kenneth Connoly Boston Police. Quite a story.

C'mon FOP haters..enough is enough. "Guest," I do not know where you get your ideas about the FOP and the future plans it may or may not have, but I will wait for your response. I can assure you that from the meetings that I have attended, there has ben no discussion on collective bargaining or anything of the sort. As far as your "boy scout and bell ringing" remark, I can only hope that you are not of "us," within the CCSO. If those are your true feelings, I question your committment to mankind in general or trying to leave this Earth a better place when you pass on. How sad it is to be you!

and if the sheriff treats you unfairly who do you turn to? do you just hope he'll be fair? if he's not who is going to back you up? family? friends? shift? :?:

:!: