Ratting out each other for speeding

Being on the outside of your department and retired from another police department I'm shocked what your own people do to each other. How can you call yourselves one big happy family when guys are ratting each other out for driving fast?

If someone is going to rat you out for fast driving what's next? Taking an extra 5 minutes for lunch because you have to take a bowel movement? Seeing your wife while on patrol, stopping talking for a minute, then kissing her good bye?

I now understand why your department can't fill it's quota. Who wants to spend more time worrying about their brother and sister officers then the crooks and creeps on the street.

If I need backup quick I don't want to worry about the fact that the guys coming to save me are the same ones I dimed out last month.

KEEP AWAY FROM THE CHEESE!

Many of us take speeding and the deadly accidents they cause seriously and also take the heat from the motorist we are citing for the same infraction and they want to know why they were passed by a CCSO car going 80 with no lights on. A deadly crash that kills my children will not soften my heart knowing it was only a fellow deputy that did it while speeding to another false alarm. Basic common sense is....if you're going to haul but to a call above the speed limit **Turn on your blue lights!** Authorized or not will not matter to the FHP trooper working the crash you were in, only how fast you were going and if your lights were on or not! If your supervisor sees you responding to somthing with them on and he hadn't told you to respond that way, then have the fortitude to tell him or her that you made the decision to turn them on because either way you were going to respond to the situation well above the speed limit and more than likely justifiably so. If there's flak from that- then take your time responding to every call and see what John Q public says when you tell him why it takes so long... I have to step down from m soap box now

I spent my share of time doing traffic enforcement and writing accident reports. So your statement about the traffic concerns was touching. If you take the time to answer every motorist who gets a ticket questions then you are one busy officer.

My original statement was why one of your own men ratted out a fellow officer to IAD. If you can't come up with a reasonable excuse for why he did it not to worry...because there is no reason to rat another officer out for driving fast.

This is an example of how that agency is run. Instead of stopping the fellow officer and saying "hey, you better slow it down or you'll end up in IA" they'd rather you go ahead and try to destroy him. You're exactly right, those are the types of reasons that Hunter cant fill his ranks with anyone other than robots. No one is allowed to think on their own. Yes he should have been stopped and given a tongue lashing seeing how one was a sgt and the offender was a cpl, this could have been done. All larger perspective is that an agency like that will implode as its doing and has been doing for a few years.

This is an example of how that agency is run. Instead of stopping the fellow officer and saying "hey, you better slow it down or you'll end up in IA" they'd rather you go ahead and try to destroy him. You're exactly right, those are the types of reasons that Hunter cant fill his ranks with anyone other than robots. No one is allowed to think on their own. Yes he should have been stopped and given a tongue lashing seeing how one was a sgt and the offender was a cpl, this could have been done. All larger perspective is that an agency like that will implode as its doing and has been doing for a few years.

He we go… YOU again!

Why do you find it necessary to come to our forum and spread your negative, old timer mentality when you have NO clue who we are and what we do. This is the second time now that you have come here and TOLD us how you are retired and from another agency, all in an attempt to show us how we are doing it wrong.

It is obvious that you have;

1. Too much time on your hands

2. Probably a reputation at your last agency as someone who liked to complain ALL the time.

3. Someone who thinks they KNOW it all.

4. Done the least throughout your career and yet acts as if you have done it all.
5. Are from a blue state during the elections (You know, a donkey symbol)

It is your comments, style and beliefs that have given law enforcement the reputation we have today. Thanks for handing this generation the donut eating, above the law, union pushing (I want everything but do not want to do anything in return attitude) stereo type. Thanks to you, our generation has to work that much harder to earn back the respect of the public and ourselves.

Your narrow minded opinion and sharp tongue does nothing but make us steadfast in our attempt to educate you with the facts.

1. We do not have quota’s here, we are allowed to write as many tickets as we want.

2. There is no such thing as “Ratting” someone out. That was a term glorified by Hollywood movies back in the 50’s. It no longer applies some 55 years later. It is now called being accountable for your actions.

3. It is not against policy to take an extra 5 minutes for dinner because we do not have a union and we eat when we can, covering our partners in zone when it is their turn. It’s called teamwork and we do not watch the clock!

4. No one cares if you happen to see your family out while on patrol. This agency is family orientated and we even have a “Family Day Picnic” every year which attendance is encouraged by the Sheriff himself. He too is a family man and believes in Family First and the event is paid for by the agency!

5. The media had a field day several years ago embarrassing our agency for excessive speeding while not on a call. The Sheriff has warned us numerous times that this behavior is not acceptable and rightfully so! The liability it places us in is not warranted nor appreciated. It shows immaturity and exclaims to the public a negative sense of respect, self control and lack of confidence that we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

6. The person YOU think “Dime’d” out the deputy that was speeding WAS Internal Affairs. It was not another road cop as you suggested. It is a sergeant assigned to that job, just doing his job, just like anybody else in the agency. If you have a problem with that, which I am sure you do, then look no further than yourself to thank. You are the reason that the I.A. job exists…to counteract the affects of your generation and restore public trust.

Your mentality towards the public, the profession and to your fellow officers is a sad, non-proven method, old school, ridiculous and an embarrassing legacy.

Times have changed in law enforcement, some for the better and some not, but the times HAVE changed. If you are unable to accept this fact then sit in misery and reminisce of how it use to be but please stop putting down your fellow law enforcement brothers for trying to adapt to new times and expectations. We expect this attitude from the public but not from one of our own.

We took the job for the same reasons as you so do not fault us because we are forced to play with a new set of rules. It’s the same job, just more complicated!

Give us a break….brother?

If it is just one big happy family of well paid officers in mutual love with the command staff while marching lockstep to the rule book...then why can't this super duper agency fill its ranks? The department is constantly looking to hire people.

As for your forum sorry but it is a forum which allows guests to post and does not require a password so it is a public forum. Just think in paradise nobody ever says a harsh word against the Sheriff and his policies.

You are not doing it wrong unless you are a member of the command staff. Why do you take everything so personal?

1, Quotas of course not...but leaving out the full term "as many or as few as we want" is a dead giveaway.

2. Ratting out someone is still ratting out someone. Unless you are one of the ones who do it then "being accountable for your actions" sounds so much nicer then being a called a RAT.

3. Take that extra 5 minutes then and use it to exam your own career and your choices. Siding with rats is not what any sane cop would call smart.

4. Nice family picnic..."attendance is encouraged by the Sheriff himself" so be there or else. "Paid for by the agency" my tax dollars are going for a picnic?

5. The media will always be a problem. Our solution was no more courtesy for the members of the media.

6. IAD out at 3AM...and you wonder why you need a union?????????

Your mentality towards the public, the profession and to your fellow officers is a sad, non-proven method, old school, ridiculous and an embarrassing legacy. So everything and everybody before YOU became a cop sucked?

Times have changed in law enforcement, some for the better and some not, but the times HAVE changed. If you are unable to accept this fact then sit in misery and reminisce of how it use to be but please stop putting down your fellow law enforcement brothers for trying to adapt to new times and expectations. We expect this attitude from the public but not from one of our own. You want the 21st century then I suggest you join a union otherwise unless you are the Sheriff himself you could get fired also. If you think my comments are insulting to the average street cop then you're not a street cop.

We took the job for the same reasons as you so do not fault us because we are forced to play with a new set of rules. It’s the same job, just more complicated! It's not a new set of rules...it's new rules added on top of old rules which have been in place since Robert Peel.

Give us a break….brother? Don't question mark this statement it is a sad ploy on your part to attempted to validate your points over mine.

as for myself

1. Too much time on your hands...Never enough time in the day it seems

2. Probably a reputation at your last agency as someone who liked to complain ALL the time...Never really had to complain we had a great union to protect us while we protected the public.

3. Someone who thinks they KNOW it all...A double Masters and 20+ years in streets that are active 24/7 ALL YEAR. But I still have an open mind and willing to listen without fear of getting spanked.

4. Done the least throughout your career and yet acts as if you have done it all...I worked patrol and investigations and I even past a few tests and made rank. But I never forgot where I came from. I must have done something right, I went out on a medical for a back injury but was offered a civilian job at the academy.

5. Are from a blue state during the elections (You know, a donkey symbol) I've been a registered Republican since I was 18.

0 for 5 you must be a house mouse. Your wonderful attitude and rose colored glasses say to me you are either someone with rank who needs to be a cheerleader to keep the rank or someone who has to be very polite and proper because you can't leave and go somewhere else.

WOW, I don't even have a college education and you proved my point.

Paradise,

Through all your whimsical posts, it's quite evident that you:

1. Have too much time on your hands

2. Probably a reputation at your agency as someone who complains about how everyone you work with are slugs and how unappreciated you are.

3. Someone who thinks they KNOW it all. (Yeah sounds like you)

4. Done the least throughout your career and yet acts as if you have done it all. (Yep)

5. Are from a red state but act like a donkey.

BTW, to the poster signing off of his "soapbox". Please stay on your soapbox because you are amusing at best.

Dear Guest,
Why do you degrade a agency you know nothing about? I am from an out of state agency and one where unions use to be strong. But I can tell you that for the most part, being union only means that the officers of that particular union receive any type of measurable remuneration. Yes, they do protect their members to a point but I don't really want to work with someone who can't do their own job and needs a union to keep it. That makes the work twice as hard for me because I have to do their job AND mine.
As for the other postings, If you are speeding, and it's not on a call, then you should be disciplined! I agree with Paradise, we are not here to "bully" the public, but to work with them. And before you make any kind of un-intelligent statement, let me say this, If you are wrong, I'll be there to throw the switch. BUT, if you are right, I'll go to the wall with you! I am an active LEO and I hold a supervisor's postition. Why should a supervisor or any other LEO take a chance on loosing all they have worked for because another LEO wants to play cops and robbers and exhibits a teenage mentality? If you play, you pay!!!
When you have a problem inside the dept. then it's the supervisor's responsibility to correct it. I have read numerous articles in the Naples Daily News concerning the speeding infractions that have been investigated by this dept. and I can't honestly say I'd do it any differently. This has obviously been a problem for sometime. Maybe you don't know about the deputy who was drag racing and posting times and dates on line to do this illegal act.
The agency seems to be sound as far as I can see. The deputy just recently investigated was given 11 hours suspension I believe. That's not quite a death sentence. Seems to me he could have been fired for conduct unbecoming or other reasons... But this type of activity leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Especially the citizens who are paying for the take home car program which could be pulled because of this type of activity.
The deputy was reported for going over 100mph. He stated he was only going 75. What's the difference, speeding is speeding unless he can justify it by being on a call or other legit. reasons.

Thank you Couldbe for having the courage to speak and the defend the new attitude and standards in law enforcment!

The new attitude and standards in law enforcment!?

http://www.geocities.com/sleepless_in_naples/roboccso.jpg

Now this is much nicer then a smiley icon, don't you agree?

The answer is simple here folks.!!! PRB Investigator (I.A.) was the one who got him on radar going 100 on his way home and pulled him over. Thats his job man!!! Shame on the deputy for getting caught doing something he writes tickets for when it is common knowledge to ALL that PRB is running radar on us. They should! As said before , all you have to do is TURN YOUR LIGHTBAR ON !!! Do you think TARB cares if you were authorized code or not, or just if you were speeding , was it lawful because tyour lightbar was on...??? Better to break policy than Florida Statute. Especially when negligent homicide is a possible consequence.

Let me get this straight...You got IAD running radar on your own Deputies at 3AM yet some of you feel that a union is not needed.

Who protects your interests when you get called into IAD? Please don't tell me the Deputy goes into the rat hole alone to be questioned.

If Sheriff Hunter is such a sweet guy to work for why is he checking up on his own people 24/7? Without union protection even the biggest ass kissers could get fired without true cause. Just because the Sheriff felt like it that day.

The United States Supreme Court ruled in 1975, in the case of NLRB v. J. Weingarten, that employees have a right to union representation at investigatory interviews. These rights have become known as the Weingarten Rights.

During an investigatory interview, the Supreme Court ruled that the following rules apply:

RULE 1: The employee must make a clear request for union representation before or during the interview. The employee cannot be punished for making this request.

RULE 2: After the employee makes the request, the employer must choose from among three options. The Employer must either: grant the request and delay questioning until the union representative arrives and has a chance to consult privately with the employee; deny the request and end the interview immediately; or give the employee a choice of having the interview without representation or ending the interview.

RULE 3: If the employer denies the request for union representation, and continues to ask questions, it commits an unfair labor practice and the employee has a right to refuse to answer. The employer may not discipline the employee for such a refusal.

Get a life and stop bothering us with your union crap. We do not want it, need it or even care about it. Furthermore, the only one who wants a union is you and you do not even work for us or even live in this state!

We are happy the way we are. Leave us alone and go away...PLEASE.

George, he's making a statement based upon his past experiences -where he came from and worked-, not in Collier or Florida. From what I've read, there was -need- for unions in those places as the people who were in control of those officers lives, were in fact politicians, citizens who knew nothing about police work or officers rights. While he may be off base as it applies to Florida and the south in general, he is quite right when applying the same scenario to most larger northern cities. Dont get too mad at him,,he knows not the atmosphere here in Florida or in the south. Having come from a lengthy law enforcement career in Florida, I know that unions were not needed at any time during my career in Florida. Men who were running the agency came from the same streets as did we, the people who -worked- the streets under them and they understood our tasks, environment. Todays environment, however has become quite different. New threats, different attitudes towards police, etc. Hopefully we wont ever need the union down here.

Georgie...how do you figure I do not live in Florida? Was it a crystal ball or did you just figure it would add weight to your argument? I live in Naples and even though I'm retired I read and observe. I can't believe that the average Deputy does not want at least some protection against being fired.

I've talked to some of the transplants from up North that are on your department and they wished they could get a union started. The standard comment from most of these guys was they can't get the older guys to go along with it and the younger ones who are "in good" with the Sheriff don't want to upset what they have.

Good God, you have IAD running radar on Deputies at 3AM. Then the Deputy goes in there alone and makes a statement. If the union was in place the first question without a union rep. present would have been the last.

The deputies would control the union nobody else. The union would be there for your protection and betterment. If things are going along smoothly then the union would be there keeping quiet. But if IAD became the Sheriff’s personal Gestapo, then the union could protect the deputies. How anyone would not want something that would help protect their jobs is beyond me.

We all have the right to have another representative in the interview with us. It's gauranteed in the officers bill of rights, many take advantage of it and even use the best defense attorney in town who often does it for free for us. Catch is- they cant say anything during the process- just listen and watch. Those of us that choose to go in alone know that truth and honesty usually means keeping your job unless the violation was shockingly criminal or lewd. Dishonesty and self righteous demanding of rights can get you that job at walmart real quick. Real cops admit to their short comings and poor decisions either physically or verbally and dont need a "REP" to excuse our behavior. I'd rather trash the badge than keep it with tarnish.

Oh please...the self rightous one speaks.

Oh please...the self rightous one speaks.

WE ALL HAVE SPOKEN AND ARE ALL SELF RIGHTOUS...GO AWAY !!!

Bye Bye RAT!!! We shall leave the RAT'S lair! And by the way, you can't match wits with someone who has none (you) so I chose to leave.

Georgie, I am glad that you have never been the target of any political garbage and I am also glad to see that there are people there that are loyal. However, the CCSO is riddled with a history of political firings and -hirings- based on what can make the Sheriff -look good-.not what the deputy or new person is capable of doing or experience. For years his advisors have warned him against -inconsistent treatment of employees. Granted there are people who should be fired for their transgressions. However, there are also people who were good cops that just rubbed the Sheriff the wrong way. These were people that were there before he was, were great street cops etc., but the Sheriff, for some unknown reason didnt -like- them. I dont know how long you've been there, probably several years but more than likely not since the first day Hunter took office. There are lots of other people who were there then that are still in Naples or Collier County and they are just waiting, quietly, for him to go away or for some governor to hire him into a more prestigous job in Tallahassee. You are to be commended for sticking with it, but there are -others-, lots of them who know a different side. Ever wonder why?,,,large departments in Florida and in other other places have a program where retiree's who have tons of experience are called in to assist with large cases, to use that source of experience to help with the newer officers,,,,,this doesnt happen in Collier. Wonder why? They know. The ones who came before you know. One day.

Rats pose a large problem, especially in areas such as Collier County Sheriff's Office where poor sanitation and accumulation of garbage provide ideal conditions for them to breed. Ranging from six inches to a foot long, they nest in basements, attics, sewers, subflooring, open garbage cans, piles of trash, message boards, in some police cruisers, or on the side of the road running radar late at night. Active mainly at night, rats contaminate fellow officers with disease, germs and filth that can cause morale problems. Worse, they will bite people - particularly to get made (promoted). Set your traps men...they are scattering around as we speak!

[mod 167]

Rats pose a large problem, especially in areas such as Collier County Sheriff's Office where poor sanitation and accumulation of garbage provide ideal conditions for them to breed. Ranging from six inches to a foot long, they nest in basements, attics, sewers, subflooring, open garbage cans, piles of trash, message boards, in some police cruisers, or on the side of the road running radar late at night. Active mainly at night, rats contaminate fellow officers with disease, germs and filth that can cause morale problems. Worse, they will bite people - particularly to get made (promoted). Set your traps men...they are scattering around as we speak!

I will caution you on this post. I find it inflammatory in nature and serve no legitimate purpose.

I will not delete a post unless I receive a complaint or clearly violate the Terms of Service.

I understand emotions can run high while discussing passionate issues but please ensure that your contribution to the forum remains positive and professional.

Thank you,
Mod 167

Don't expect to get out of a ticket when you retrieve your license and a badge is visible. If the violation was so bad that I've decided to stop you , I've probably already decided that whatever it was I saw deserves a ticket. Again , the reckless driver that maims or kills - deputy or not WILL go to prison. Charlotte County S.O. a few years ago -deputy running over 100 to back up another officer that wasn't THAT urgent killed someone that pulled out in front of him without his blue lights on. He had to see his wrecked patrol car inside the compound next door to the jail he was serving time in. Research for youself.

If you decide to pull me over ON duty for speeding then YOU will be arrested for obstruction. I can't believe you would be so arrogant to think you could pull over an on duty officer! I'm at a loss for words and that doesn't happen often. Go ahead tough guy...try pulling me over on duty and YOU will be the one looking at your cruiser from the jail. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

No brother, I'm not talking about when you are on duty---that's your business and PRB, I'm talking when you're off duty driving like those you swore you'd protect others from. Your mention of "cruiser" clearly tells us you've been hired from up north where you probably had that union. We call them patrol cars here because we don't just cruise around in them.

I have been checking in on these blogs and have become concerned in regards to your response. Unless I am not understanding you properly, you are clearly stating you write off-duty deputies tickets. There was an officer who did the same thing once, but he took a step back when the following occurred:

Officer-I need your license, registration, and insurance.
Off Duty-Sir, I want to let you know I am an off-duty officer and I carry a weapon with me, here is my license and police ID.
Officer-Don't give me that sh*t. What makes you think you are any different than everyone else out here driving today.
Off-Duty-The difference.....if you were getting your ass kicked on the side of the road here, I would stop and help you.

Just a thought.

Just remember you may need the help of one of your fellow brothers one day. Will you get that help???????? :twisted:

I wrote the response in regards to the Deputy that had been pulled over by a deputy like many of you posting coments in here. I would like to add something else due to the fact I am a little upset with some of my fellow deputies mind-set when it comes to other officers speeding, and committing infractions.

I have not been in law enfrocment too long (about six years), but I received extensive training in writing tickets, traffic accident investigation and the purpose of issuing tickets. It is my understanding citations (tickets) are issued as an education tool. You are educating the violator so they know the possible consequences of their actions.

Any road officer, from New York to California, has been through an academy that instructs them on the ways traffic accidents, crimes occurr. Additionally, most officers have seen their fair share of deaths, narely accident sites, and traffic wrecks.

My point is...if tickets are to educate the people that may not know the consequences, why in the world would you issue an edication to an educated person. They know the consequences, so a ticket only hurts their families financially (not educate them further). You are defeating the purpose. Are their exceptions to writing cop's tickets? YES. But in general, you will not find me writing an educated officer (from any state) an education.

God Bless

For six years on the job you make a great deal of sense - GOD BLESS YOU!

we all have sat in incentive classes and other training classes and heard the stories from the upper brass about the "flying v" anyone who has not it is a formation used by several deputies who worked road patrol in immokalee and who travel in this formation at a high rate of speed on the way home. can't do it now, just aske sang kim. now the attitude is "do as i say, not as i do." a certain traffic unit sgt. formally assigned to road patrol would go, as some people would describe, 100 mph just to get a cup of coffee. now he is stopping deputies for 9 mph over the limit. in short, who cares anymore. stop beating the horse, IT'S DEAD. sang survived and so will anyone else. just be careful and don't do anything stupid.

will i give a ticket to a cop or a cop's family member? the answer is simple, no i will not. will i talk about it? no....i will shut up about it. unfortunately there are deputies out there that will right there own mother a ticket. not too much we can do about it. maybe he/she wants to get promoted and he/she see's this as a way to get the third stripe or more.

and as far as insulting retired leo's wityhout knowing anything about them is a little short sighted.

The cops writing other cops tickets ARE the bullied. They were bullied there entire life and now it's time for their pay back.

If the above is the same Guest who thinks the lack of using caps makes the jail beneath him he should check his spelling bullied there whole life, should be their....at least you got it right the second time....if your not the same one i apologize

Removed by Mod 167

[mod 167]

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Mod 167

I thought this post might need a second look by some of you who still believe a little speeding by deputies is ok because we are going to a call or alarm or whatever the case may be.
Watch the news in the next few days about a patrol car involved in an on duty crash. The outcome is interesting and will wake you up. Florida Highway Patrol does not play around. They investigate and charge where appropriate.

Yah ok whatever!

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Mod 167

COLLIER COUNTY: An early morning accident involving a Collier County Sheriff's patrol car sent a 22-year-old woman to the hospital.

It happened at the intersection of Golden Gate Parkway and Sunshine Boulevard in Golden Gate City.

Investigators with the Florida Highway Patrol say 22-year-old Monica Webster was heading south on Sunshine Boulevard and failed to stop at a flashing red light at Golden Gate Parkway.

She pulled into the path of the patrol car, which was traveling east on Golden Gate Parkway, and the two collided.

Webster's father-in-law rushed to the scene as soon as he heard about the accident.

"He (the deputy) must've been going really fast because the front side of the car was all smashed and it was spun around facing the other way probably 25 - 30 feet away from the car," said Jeffery Odone, Webster's father-in-law.

SOME FEEL THAT QUANITY IS THE NEW WAY! QUALITY USED TO BE THE WAY! I PREFER A COMBINATION OF THE TWO, HOWEVER WHEN STATISTICS DOMINATE OUR AGENCY, WE MUST COMPLY! NAPLES, 10-08, HHHHH................


P.S. THEY PAY US TO FOLLOW DIRECTIVES, BE A GOOD SOLDIER!

if you think like that, your right, you're just the idiot for the job!!

Is Jeffery Odone a traffic crash investigator?

That's what's so sad here. You don't have to be a crash investigator to look at the patrol car and decide for yourself. I believe the speed limit is 35mph on GGpkwy. Lets look at the patrol car and convince each other it was going 35.

[Ten8hotel]

Wow. I didn't check the site during the work week and I come back and it takes an hour to read everything. I'm glad were having more participation and debate, it's healthy. I don't think anyone is really out to catch someone doing a little speeding here and there (except maybe half of one percent of us) or PRB when its extreme or given directive to do it. But some of us actually do care about public perception and the innevitable really bad crashes that we sometimes get into without having the lightbar on. It's just bad all around when that happens. The public will Monday morning quarter back it, and what seemed like a reasonable reason at the time to be way over the limit will look reckless and irrational to the point of the person involved being criminally or civily charged. It's hard for the Sheriff to stay your employ when you've been charged by a crash investigator as having some responsibility in a serious bodily injury or death crash. We just need to make sure we're doing the right thing for the right reasons. Everybody wants to get to a call for help from the public as fast as possible, it's in our nature. Just be safe brothers and tap me on the shoulder when I need to be told to watch MY driving.

That's what's so sad here. You don't have to be a crash investigator to look at the patrol car and decide for yourself. I believe the speed limit is 35mph on GGpkwy. Lets look at the patrol car and convince each other it was going 35.

What a vehicle looks like is no indication of how fast it was going so yes you do need to be a crash investigator to know what you do need to look at to obtain a speed.

If the other vehicle was travelling fast and the patrol car was going slow, the other vehicle would transfer it's energy upon impact and cause severe damage to the patrol car.

If the witness, who is a civilian with no training, is correct and the patrol car left 35 feet of skid marks then a simple formula will give you a speed:

30xdxf Sqrt = speed or 30 x 35 x .75 Sqrt = 28.0624 mph. (Indicative of a low speed prior to impact)

That is the speed the patrol car was going after the crash. BUT was the patrol car going that fast because the other vehicle pushed it to that speed or was that the resultant speed after the crash. The only way to know is to use another formula. That formula accounts for the angle the cars were travelling prior to the crash and the angles it travelled after the crash. By using this information is the only way to get each vehciles true speed.

Based on my experience and reading the information available, on the surface it looks like niether vehcile was speeding and the only causation to this crash was the civilian who decided to run the red light and not yield to the deputy.

It is very possible that the deputy was travelling at or below 35mph.

It sounds like the person posting above has knowledge about traffic accident investigation. I appreciate your professional opinion. We also need to keep in mind that after the impact skids could be left from acceleration, braking or even doing neither of the two.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT CRASHING!!!!! OR COPS GETTING INTO ACCIDENTS ON DUTY!!!!!!!!! THIS IS ABOUT COPS WHO FEEL IT NECESSARY TO PULL OVER OTHER COPS (EVEN ON DUTY) OR TELL SUPERVISORS THAT OTHER COPS WERE SPEEDING AND/OR IN VIOLATION OF OTHER CIVIL INFRACTIONS!!!

THE CCSO IS NOTORIOUS FOR CERTAIN COPS GIVING OTHER COPS AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS TICKETS FOR INFRACTIONS. HYPOTHETICALLY, WHAT DEFENSE DOES A "COP" HAVE WHEN HE PULLS OVER ANOTHER COP CAR FOR SPEEDING. LET'S NOT EVEN MENTION THE COP WHO PULLED OVER THE OTHER COP WAS THE BIGGEST SPEEDER (IN A COP CAR) THAT EVER EXISTED!! IT'S LIKE THE DUI COP WHO DRINKS AND DRIVES ON HIS DAYS OFF!!!

THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO DISPLAY THIS, LIKE ALL THE OTHER BLOGS I HAVE GIVEN THAT ARE THE TRUTH. SOMETHING ABOUT ACCUSING WITHOUT PROOF. I HAVE A MEMORY OF EIGHT YEARS. IF I AM WRITING IT, IT HAPPENED!!

FOR THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN BEING A COP WITH THE CCSO , I HAVE A COPY OF A LETTER FROM DONNY HIMSELF THAT STATES HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN PROFESSIONAL COURTESY IN "HIS" AGENCY!!!

WELL LET ME TELL YOU OUTSIDERS, DONNY HAS CREATED A WORK ENVIRONMENT THAT HAS YOU LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER 24/7. WHAT A JOY IT WAS TO GO TO WORK!!!

HERE'S A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION: A CAR IS FOUND EMPTY IN A FIELD, ONSTAR, WITH THE HELP OF COPS, FOUND IT WITH THE THOUGHT THE DRIVER MAY NEED HELP. WELL THE OWNER OF THE CAR SHOWS UP MINUTES AFTER THE CAR IS FOUND. HE/SHE APPEARS DRUNK. NO WHEEL WITNESS, NO KEYS IN THE IGNITION. COULD HAVE BEEN HOME DRINKING JUST PRIOR TO POLICE CONTACT.

FOR ANY COMMON CITIZEN, THERE WOULD BE NO PROBABLE CAUSE FOR A DUI ARREST. BUT HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, WHAT IF A OWNER OF THE CAR WAS A COP. HOW FAIR WOULD IT BE IF THAT COP WAS PLACED INTO CUSTODY FOR DUI.

THAT WAS JUST A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE ABOUT TO APPLY FOR A COP JOB WITH THE CCSO. IT COULD HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Mr. CUBS1615...that would be a BAD arrest and it would be tossed faster than Lou Pinella arguing with an umpire!

Calm down CUBS1615. CCSO is not the only agency that writes cops tickets. Why don't you go to the FHP message board and yell at them about writing cops tickets? In fact, if you Google cops writing cops tickets, you will find a web site devoted solely to cops writing other cops tickets.

This is nothing new or unusual. Times in law enforcement have changed. Some still let cops go and some don't. If you are worried about getting a ticket for speeding then don't do it. So far I have not seen one example or instance of a cop writing another cop a ticket for speeding with their lights and siren on responding to a call. It is all been off duty in their POV's. We are not above the law sodon't get your panties in a wad when someone makes you realize that while you are signing 5 copies.

If you hate the CCSO so much and are happy where you are at now then why do you find it necessary to come here and tell everyone hom much you hate CCSO? Let me guess, because the police department that you currently work for does not have their own message board?

Relax brother, life is too short. It's just a job not your life.

cubs1615,

are you saying the sheriff is an egomaniac...a control freak...i'm not sure i understand.

donny and his cronnies want everyone to think that the CCSO is a great place to be a cop. It's NOT!!! Moral is horrible, but everyone is so scared to express their discontent until they leave.

Let me ask you this "cupid", why has it gotten worse in the last several years and why is it unheard of up north?

Times are not supposed to be changing, not until they take officer discretion off the books!!! Nice try!!!

I want guys who are looking at this for a job with CCSO to realize what they're in for when they work for donny. You may not want to believe this, but you, donny and the "boys" are still the minority in this class of cops. Most cops want to work in an environment with a brotherhood. There will NEVER be a brotherhood in CCSO!!!

With officer discretion on your side, why create the animosity on the job? Perhaps because you think this will get you closer to donny?

Is that question about the DUI On*Star involving a cop a real CCSO incident? I find it hard to believe someone from our agency is stupid enough to arrest someone without PC, especially an off-duty cop.

As for cops writing cops tickets. We have the traffic unit to thank for that. It seems like they have forgotten discretion. It is bad we are being told by the FTO's and fellow deputies to "look out for the traffic unit. They would like nothing more than to jam up a deputy." I would like to think we work on the same team. At least there are two guys in that unit, that I know, who are good people and will respond to a non-traffic call just to help you out.

oh it happened. and thats just the tip of the iceberg. guess which top cop was involved in the direction of that political coverall.

How often during the day do you clock a traffic unit from CCSO speeding for no apparent reason? Compared to lets say: a State Trooper going the opposite way on the interstate? Or another road patrol deputy or unmarked taurus? I think not too often. Thats because most of what they do is enforce speed. They generally give at least 15 - somtimes 20 over----TO the public before they get aroused. When they slam people for 10 over in a neighborhood, it's because they were sent there to send a message so they never have to go back. When a patrol car lights up the radar at 80-90 down goodlette road it probably irritates them. They know the reputation they have gotten and therefore expect no less than a citation themselves if THEY are ever caught off duty well over the speed limit. Ask one for yourself. They'll sign and take the school. The guy I talked to said he'd rather get the ticket than a phone call to the powers that be.

OK, maybe I live in a hole, but I have heard of one incident where a traffic unit deputy wrote a ticket to an off duty deputy after he had been stopped, and warned, several times. Is there other incidents that I don't know about? Are there other CCSO deps that have gotten tickets by CCSO? :?

Jail Deputy in uniform on his way to work flagged over with two other cars at 20 mph over the speed limit in a school zone. How do you let that one go and write the other two cars?

"Jail Deputy in uniform on his way to work flagged over with two other cars at 20 mph over the speed limit in a school zone. How do you let that one go and write the other two cars?"

Very easy solution to that little problem. Write the other two cars first then let the jail deputy go last. It's that simple.

"Jail Deputy in uniform on his way to work flagged over with two other cars at 20 mph over the speed limit in a school zone. How do you let that one go and write the other two cars?"

Very easy solution to that little problem. Write the other two cars first then let the jail deputy go last. It's that simple.

You are the reason why people like firefighters more than they do cops.

You run your mouth about how the command staff, Sheriff and PRB abuse thier "Power" and yet you are doing the same thing! (Or expect others to).

You are a piece of work.

It could be that simple if:

The two other parties cited with a doubled school zone fine didn't call admin later to ask if that deputy got the same ticket, and then you didn't get a phone call from admin asking you the same question followed by the question," why didn't you notify an on duty supervisor (Lt.) to respond to the scene according to policy when you stop another deputy.

Seems to be not worth my career plans because of someone else's speeding. I guess if you're willing to justify why two other people that didn't have a uniform on got the ticket and the other one didn't.

If you write another cop for speed you might as well swallow whenever you are in a meeting with command staff.

The guy you jam up, is the same guy next week who will risk his life to help you. When was the last time you saw a boss back you up when you're in need?

Yet they sit up in the ivory tower and wonder why they can't find people who want the job?????????????

20 over in a school zone, it doesn't matter who it is. My kids could be in that school zone. If it was hypothetical...bad example. If it was real...that person crossed the "courtesy" line.

To cupid and showbiz...I'm glad I don't work with you two guys. Why don't you post your names so that people know the RATS they work with. I have been a cop for 12 years and I have never written another cop in my life. Speeding is NOT the crime of the century guys! You have too much time on your hands! You guys are the type of cops that run radar where the speed limit suddenly drops just so you can show your daddies that you are getting the stats. Oh and by the way Cupid...it's not POWER that we cops have. It's clear to me that you have the attitude that you have the POWER to screw other cops out of their jobs. Why don't you go work in Internal affairs you RAT!

"It's clear to me that you have the attitude that you have the POWER to screw other cops out of their jobs."

How can I screw another cop out of their job. It was THEIR concious decision to speed. How about taking responsibilty for your own actions!!!

You are the same type of puke that wants to blame the cop when they get caught DUI. You know, the guy you arrest for DUI who then tells you that you, the cop, is ruining their life. How about manning up you wus.

If you take the risk, chance of doing something wrong, then accept your fate when you get busted. That is the problem in today's "Me" society. No one wants to accept responsibility for their own actions and that to me is being a COWARD.

Being a COP does not make you special or above the law. Stop getting pissed because you want a handicap for being ignorant.

[Paradise]

Well said Cupid, I agree!!

To Pukid...You, my son, are a RAT and a ROOKIE! Nothing more nothing less! Don't try and justify yourself to me. I've seen your type and know to avoid you like the plague. Not because I'm a dirty cop. I avoid pukes like you because you'll rat out anyone just to get ahead. I don't respect losers like you. As far as me...I don't drive drunk because I don't drink. I don't get in trouble on the job or off because I don't do anything illegal. I do however, give cops breaks for speeding (which apparently is the crime of the century to you). I also gives cops breaks for DUI (I'll give them a ride home) as long as there is no personal injury involved. Until you have a life or death situation where a brother or sister cop saves your life, you won't understand. I, my snitch friend, have almost been killed on duty (very very seriously injured) and would have died had it not been for my brothers and sisters on the job. THEY SAVED MY LIFE!!! So the least I can do is cut them a break on a tiny little speeding violation. That knowledge will come to you in time and when you get a little more experience under your belt.

[Curios George]

I challenge you to read my response to your views of a "tiny little speeding infraction" under my thread titled "So who is really the RAT?"

Shut up Rusty Handcuffs. You and Parasite can post under all the new names you want. Go hide in the office, like usual and let the real cops worry about the big bad world outside.

Police Officers are all trained to provide services to the community. They are trained and educated far more than the average citizen, especially when it comes to speeds, the consequences of speeding, and traffic crash investigation.

The sole purpose of issuing someone a citation is to educate the offender. Those educations come in the form of a punishment frequently, which is a fine and/or license suspension. As stated in the last paragraph, police officers are already educated on the consequences. If the purpose of issuing a citation is to educate, why in the world would you try and educate and educated person? This makes no sense to me. If a police officer is doing something WAY OUT OF LINE (such as 100 in a 55) then maybe there is some remedial training the supervisors can send them to.

We all know the consequences of pulling our firearm and making it go BANG. We all know the consequences of drinking and driving, and we all know the consequences of driving too fast. We are educated at the academy and on a daily basis when we respond to traffic accidents. Not to beat a dead horse, but if the sole purpose is to educate people when issuing a citation, why do some people feel it necessary to educate an educated person?

You will not find me giving a ticket to someone that already knows better. I will give a ticket to someone that doesn't know better.

[Ten8hotel]

High speed tragedy
In December 2005, it will be ten years since Neil Homer from Oldbury was killed.

The Police were involved in a 100 mph pursuit of a stolen vehicle when they hit his car.

It was two days after Neil's 20th birthday.


'Neil was a very special lad... we miss him so much" says his dad
The driver of the police car was found guilty of death by dangerous driving and sentenced to three months in prison.

Tickets are not education. There is engineering,education and enforcement. The ticket is the enforcement component. It is punishment and deterent to driving out of accepted boundaries. Driving is not a right. If we are already so educated and skillful about driving because we drive all the time, then what about truck drivers and taxi cabs and pizza delivery? Stop your whining and drive without expecting any favors when you screw up. How many people were murdered in Collier last year? Now look at how many were killed by crashes! BIG number difference. It will only matter to you when your family is one of the stats. Then you will have a sudden urge to enforce these minor speed infractions.

A RAT= a cop who writes another cop a ticket! What part of that do you rookie clowns not understand?

You know I have NEVER written another cop a ticket but I must honestly say that if I ever learn who you are and had the PLEASURE of pulling you over, I would DEFINETLY write you a ticket. As they say, attitude is everything and yours sucks.

You have done nothing but post negative comments about the people you work with and have bad mouth the Sheriff and command staff, which you chose to work for. You think your smart by posting under different names but you are easy to see through.

Keep treating people on this forum the way you do. You are winning over lots of deputies to your side with you condescending posts. The more you speak the less people are interested. I bet Ortino is proud that you are campaigning for him. I also bet the Sheriff is too.

Tickets are not education. There is engineering,education and enforcement. The ticket is the enforcement component. It is punishment and deterent to driving out of accepted boundaries. Driving is not a right. If we are already so educated and skillful about driving because we drive all the time, then what about truck drivers and taxi cabs and pizza delivery? Stop your whining and drive without expecting any favors when you screw up. How many people were murdered in Collier last year? Now look at how many were killed by crashes! BIG number difference. It will only matter to you when your family is one of the stats. Then you will have a sudden urge to enforce these minor speed infractions. i agree! we are fighting old school vs the new ways. compromise!!